Using a kick-drum mic for tuba

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Hey! I hope everyone s weathering the coronavirus storm OK!

Question: I have seen people recommend using a kick-drum mic for tuba in the past, and I tried one out. I really like the quality of the sound vs. the iPad onboard mic, but my problem is a low volume of the output. It makes sense, because I am sure they are typically used in super high volume situations. My question is: has anyone had a problem with the lower output of their kick-drum mic?

Ciao!

[iiipopes]

Which make and model of microphone? For example, I have a friend who has no issue with the output of the AKG112 in a conventional bass drum application, and he does not kick his bass drum that hard. Are you trying to feed a low impedance microphone into a high impedance input? That will cause considerable gain drop.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

no preamp in your pile o’ stuff ?

Yes, I have a PreSonus Audio Box iOne interface, and a Sennheiser e 602-II cardioid dynamic mic.

I just tried moving the mic closer to the bell, which helped (I had previously had it about 6 ft away, and aimed it slightly off direct at the bell).

I am guessing that the mic is designed for in-close placement, and maybe has a shotgun pattern? Is that typical of a kick-drum mic?

[BopEuph]

So you're just getting some things mixed up, likely from what you hear when you're doing a recording for a solo competition. An omnidirectional mic would be put farther away from the horn, and it would grab the sound of the room as well as the horn.

Dynamic mics are generally more unidirectional, rather than omnidirectional mics. Since, like you said, this microphone is designed for loud instruments, you don't need to put it far away from the horn. It's designed to be practically inside the bell.

This would be typical of bass drum, guitar, and horn mics, as the point is getting a signal from a single, high volume instrument. What's cool about this is you don't have to worry about much bleed. I generally play fun recordings without any kind of in-ear monitoring situation, where I'll play along with the track playing in speakers, and it comes out fine. Even when I solo the tuba in post, you can very barely hear anything other than the tuba.

So, yes, you want it much closer. You want the microphone pretty much in the center of your bell edge to start, then you want to experiment with placement: distance, angle, etc.

And you'll do well to have a better preamp to load the PreSonus. I enjoy my DTAR Solstice for this job, and when I'm playing into my computer, the Solstice is still in the chain before my Focusrite. It's also the perfect buffer before a bass guitar amp, if you're using one.

[iiipopes]

All the above. You have a great mic for tuba. But you do need to get it closer. Problems with too far away: lack of definition, bleed, and insufficient level. Problems with too close: too many transients, bass can be too much (called the "proximity effect"), and overload. It is difficult to find the "happy medium" for mic placement in any circumstance. The good news: proper mic placement can solve many level, balance, and eq issues. With a new low-noise preamp, you are on your way.

Or, if all else fails, you can go back to using an RCA 77, fiddle with the settings, both roll-off and pattern, and tilt it back @ 30 degrees to sag the ribbon to get upper bass emphasis.

[marccromme]

I use an AKG 112 MKII some 35 cm away from the bell, and to the side. With a Focusrite Scartett 2I2 audio interface, the preamp gain is about at 3/4, and that setting does not oversteer unless I overblow to splatter. Works much better than my previos attempts with an iRig Studio USB mic. So yes, it works if close enough.

[tadawson]

no preamp in your pile o’ stuff ?

Yes, I have a PreSonus Audio Box iOne interface, and a Sennheiser e 602-II cardioid dynamic mic.

I just tried moving the mic closer to the bell, which helped (I had previously had it about 6 ft away, and aimed it slightly off direct at the bell).

I am guessing that the mic is designed for in-close placement, and maybe has a shotgun pattern? Is that typical of a kick-drum mic?

Absolutely not! Kick mics are typically placed at the head, or sitting in a hole in it - hardly something you would consider a shotgun pattern for. The D112 is a modest cardioid pattern, and has tolerance to high SPL. The frequency response has some peaks unique to the kick application, and which would tend to make me rrach for something elsemfor low brass, such as an RE--20 or other flatter, high spl mic with good low end coverage.

[funkcicle]

Kick mics are made for super loud transients, so they don't generally make great tuba mics in my experience unless you're absolutely blasting into it - the dynamic range between f and ppp is a lot more condensed than its dynamic range between f and fff, so the anything between between mp and mf, which is almost all of our playing, ends up sounding kind of bland. A high end dynamic mic like an RE-20 or MD421 placed right outside the bell will capture your tone a lot more accurately, a condenser low end condenser like a Rode NT1 placed a few feet away will get a good room sound.

In a pinch, an SM57 dropped down into the bell is near fool proof - especially for amplification.

[oscarcahue]

I've read alot of forums & people talk highly of the Audix D4 for micing tubas & Sousaphones.

I own a broken one, I have to ship it out one of these days. (I bought it cheap broken, because I found out Audix has a standard $37 repair fee which is neat.)

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/D4Mic--audix-d4" target="_blank