Do we have the courage to participate in this thread?

[THE TUBA]

PT-6P $8,500

This thread disagrees...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=95312" target="_blank" target="_blank

I would disagree that the horn in mention fits the bill of bloke's mandate to "imagine it to be in "extra-fine" condition." 18 years old, lacquer wear, leadpipe moved, a couple of dings, patch in the 1st valve slide. I wouldn't describe that horn as being near "bad" condition, but it is still far removed from "extra-fine."

[Heavy_Metal]

I’ll do my own as well...why not?!?

“Extra fine” condition, no play-test, sold in a week:

Alexander 163 CC, 4 rotor : $3750
Alexander 163 BBb, 4 rotor : $3500
Meinl Weston 45-SLP: $4000

I’d bet my “good” mouthpieces would fly off the shelf at about $50 each with no questions asked, too. Gig bags for $125 would probably go in less than a day.

Tom “Not a buyer or a seller” B.

Yeah, but do we really know anyone who would actually want to sell their Alex?

[bort]

Well Frank, I just bought one. So certainly, someone wanted to sell it.

Hello, Mr Right Place? Meet Mr Right Time.

[vespa50sp]

Conn 12j $550
Conn 14j $1350
Lyon Eb Helicon $350

That's what they actually sold for in less than a week recently. The all looked ok, only the helicon was actually played.

[P@rick]

Rudolf Meinl 4/4 Bb 5 valve for $7500?

[breannalynnplaystuba]

Jupiter?


wait, no I got it! Contrabass!

[DouglasJB]

[quote="B&S PT-9 (Symphonie bore and design) six-valve F tuba: $4000[/quote]

If you ever decide to sell for this price call me, I can assure you it will take less than a week

[Rick Denney]

"B&S PT-9 (Symphonie bore and design) six-valve F tuba: $4000

If you ever decide to sell for this price call me, I can assure you it will take less than a week

It’s what I paid, but when I saw it I did not dawdle.

Rick “who sold a 5-valve Symphonie to fund the purchase after two weeks of agonizing comparisons” Denney

[TubaBeage]

Besson 785 3V comp BBb 17" in Bright SP $450
Imperial 4V comp BBb 17" in Frost SP $900

You can't eat brass or toilet paper.

[Michael Grant]

Willson 3400 Eb $7,500

[TheTuba]

Mackbrass TU140 CC- 1,000
I noticed that most of the horns price around 1,500-1,750, from various conditions of really good- pretty used. it's kind of interesting that this model has some of the highest prices used when compared to the original price of around 1700-2100. Almost a 88% value return. I guess its more of the mindset than anything, but I don't know what someones thinking when it's been used for 6 years, has silver/lacquer worn off, various dents that supposedly "don't" affect playability and still prices it at almost the value they bought it for, weird stuff.
Sorry, went off on a rant haha
Find this weird because other horns, like the 5k miraphone 186 CC at Baltimore brass has 5k on it when the retail is 10k (I believe), and it's also in really good condition. I'm a little salty cause I'm a high school student looking for a used mack

[Matt G]

The Mack tubas hold value pretty well similar to “the smallest house in the neighborhood” phenomenon.

They are built well enough, based on an excellent design, and priced extremely competitively.

No surprise that they hang onto some value, when the new price is below the prices of most used CC tubas.

[Matt G]

Just a bump for relevance...

I think there is probably some “provenance” factor in final transaction cost, but it’s typically not going to factor in as much here, possibly not at all, with the “one week or less” expiry.

[Jess Haney]

Wessex Prokofiev $7,000.

[Matt G]

Wessex Prokofiev $7,000.

Do enough of these exist to have a known characteristic with regards to response and intonation?

[Jess Haney]

I have played several Prokofiev BBbs and they are very nice. My top choice depending on how the Eastman 6/4 BBb turns out.

[Matt G]

Would it sell for less than a week with no play test at that price?

Full disclosure: I just bought a 6/4 horn for $7k without playing it. I kinda know what I’m getting into with the examples that exist and I have the patience and funds to address issues as they arise.

Maybe that’s the case with this horn? It’s all a fun thought experiment nonetheless.

[humBell]

No. I don't have the courage to participate in this thread. Nor much of the relevant background.

Unless reading it counts as participation.

Sorry for my personal short comings.

[rodmathews]

I'll play, with a real life example. I have a Yamaha 822 F tuba in excellent condition and some modifications that I would like to sell.

Acknowledging that there aren't that many units of these instruments available in the market at any one time AND there aren't that many buyers in the market at any one time, I think I could easily sell it for about 70% of whatever a new instrument is selling for. I've sold three of these in the past, and that's about the ratio of where they sold, so I do have some direct market data over a 15 or 20 year period. In a normal non-COVID influenced market it should take very little time to move at that price, and I'd quickly have the cash in my pocket. If they are $10K new (plus tax) and I sold it for $7K (no tax) I am confident it would move quickly. If I went down to $6500 I'm 100% confident I'd have a few buyers lined up within a few days, and the multiple bidder situation might actually drive the price up a bit.

HOWEVER, I don't need the cash and I'm not in a hurry. I've also invested money in some modifications that others might like, and those should have some value. With patience for the right buyer, and knowledge that when a buyer decides to look for a used version of this horn there won't be many used or new ones available, I feel I can wait for a more appropriate price relative to my expectations.

I listed the horn for $9,000 with the following logic. These are north of $10K new, with advertised prices around $12-13K. This horn is in as close to new condition as you can get - it's cosmetically almost perfect. Let's call the new retail price $10K for the sake of argument. Including sales tax that is really $10,800. I'm including a Cronkhite bag that would be at least $600 new and a main tuning slide trigger that was about $1200. Add all that up and you are at $12,600. My asking price of $9,000 is 70% of that, which aligns with the logic I outlined above. It hasn't sold, so clearly I am either too high in my asking price or there are no buyers in the market, or there is no value in the bag and the mods. Given the COVID-19 effect, I would definitely think there are little to no buyers for horns in the market right now.

To answer your original question, I'm pretty sure if I dropped it to $7500 it would sell very quickly, but I'm also pretty sure if I'm patient I'll get something closer to the $9000 I have listed it for. I have the benefit of time since I don't need the cash, but I could also get tired of waiting and want to just move it along. We'll see what happens.

Good question.

[Donn]

It hasn't sold, so clearly I am either too high in my asking price or there are no buyers in the market, or there is no value in the bag and the mods. Given the COVID-19 effect, I would definitely think there are little to no buyers for horns in the market right now.

Right, and even absent that factor, there aren't a massive number of people out beating the bushes for an F tuba, and of those most probably have a very limited shopping list. With so few buyers, you kind of have to reach nearly everyone, right? before you know how the market looks. I don't know how that's done, but I bet it takes months, maybe years.

So it's my theory that selling prices for something like that are almost always low, because no one wants to wait around a year. Or to look at it another way, the market is a function of how long you can afford to wait.

I don't know, maybe that Conn 3V Eb giant bass on ebay in Elkhorn, WI is the definitive test. If that thing is ever sold at its asking price of $3.5K, you all will learn from the master of patience. How long has it been there? Years for sure.