Prelude to Act 3 of Lohengrin

[TexTuba]

Huh? While those particular models may not have existed then, they most certainly had (Big ***-) Kaiser tubas. And just how is it that you know that they were "by no means is it as good as we have now"?

Okay. Those horns I mentioned were just examples of the variety of horns you could possibly use. As in one of that largest and one of the smallest. And I say as good as we have now because of how far tubas have come. For example the craftsmanship, the many different horns you could can choose from, etc. I don't think back then they had places like WWBW or Custom Music.

It occasionally gets played that way; but what's more important is that although Berlioz was thoroughly aware of the bass- and contrabass tubas and their potential, he almost exclusively wrote for either ophicleides, serpents, or a combination thereof 'til his death in 1869. Also not trivial: he ranted long and loud about musicians who saw fit to "improve" his music with their own changes. Does this mean we all oughta take up the ophicleide? No. A better approach is to use that expensive college education, and whatever common sense God gave you, and leave the York copy at home during Berlioz week.

I kinda figured that you wouldn't use a BIG tuba. Again, this falls under what I was saying earlier of whatever sounds good and is good with the ensemble.

Ralph

[UDELBR]

I say as good as we have now because of how far tubas have come. For example the craftsmanship, the many different horns you could can choose from, etc.

If you haven't played an instrument from that era, then that's idle speculation. And as for craftsmanship, ALL tubas were hand-made back in the day! (If anything, I think craftsmanship and work ethic have taken an enormous nose dive this last century.)

Again, "whatever sounds good" won't cut it when the trumpets and trombones have gone to the trouble to use authentic German instruments identical to what was used 150 years ago.

[TexTuba]

If you haven't played an instrument from that era, then that's idle speculation. And as for craftsmanship, ALL tubas were hand-made back in the day! (If anything, I think craftsmanship and work ethic have taken an enormous nose dive this last century.)

That may be so as far as speculation/opinion, but your take on craftsmanship is no more than an opinion as well.

Again, "whatever sounds good" won't cut it when the trumpets and trombones have gone to the trouble to use authentic German instruments identical to what was used 150 years ago.

With the exception of the new Kruspe/Thein tbones that Friedman helped produce, I haven't heard much of them using "authentic" German instruments. But I could be WAY off base on that one. What horns would you recommend for that "authentic" sound when it comes to tuba? This is by no means sarcasm, just a sincere question.

Ralph

[windshieldbug]

the "who can make the violas go deaf first" contest

I thought they were already deaf; Why else does one play viola?

[TexTuba]

the "who can make the violas go deaf first" contest

I thought they were already deaf; Why else does one play viola?

DUH! To make OTHERS suffer..

Ralph

[Mark]

When I see all of these parts that have bass/contrabass tuba, is it really good to go by what they say? I mean, Wagner and Tchaikovsky didn't have the option of MW 2165's or Mira 184's.

Also, you have to consider whether the the music has been "edited". Some one besides the composer may have decided to change tuba to bass tuba, etc.

[UDELBR]

What horns would you recommend for that "authentic" sound when it comes to tuba?

Er, one that is reasonably in line with the intent of the composer (...which is the entire point of my post...<sigh>)

[windshieldbug]

Er, one that is reasonably in line with the intent of the ...

Conductor, more like...

[TexTuba]

Hey Ralph,
I see your point - the horn should sound appropriate. Appropriate to the intent of the composer is more like it. Ever been to a Brahms or Bruckner concert where the trumpets use rotaries, tbones use different horns, and the tuba is an F? That's what you call making it German.
Uncle Beer is right on. If you knew a little about him, I think you would trust him on this.
Doc

I believe I understand now. Thank you, sir.

Ralph

[windshieldbug]

If you sat in a modern orchestra with a modern string section and a large harp, I think you would lose a lot. I personally like an F and an Eb. A bit of a mix of timbre that I think works well.

I've played Fantastique in a modern orchestra using ophecleides, anyway. The part lies very well for them, and the notes (even the octaves) are effortless. Because of the writing, even with the full orchestra, they come out really well. You are correct that there was no tuba then, but there was the serpent, which he could have used had the mood so struck him. The reason he specifies two different key ophecleides is to ensure that the bad notes of each are covered by the other (being keyed instruments, there is no slide pulling), not for the timbre clash. The Dies Irae section does sound awesome on ophecleides, but I'm of the opinion that he was using the best orchestral instruments he could. Otherwise, he could just as easily specified serpents, which would have carried with them holy/unholy baggage. I think in this case the opheleide was the Biggest Available Tuba-sounding instrument.

_______________
Michael Keller
ex-The Delaware Symphony