Why do most orchestral players use a CC tuba?

[royjohn]

I've another thread where I talked about switching from BBb to CC tuba, but it hit me today to ask why most orchestral players use a CC tuba instead of a BBb?
TIA,
royjohn

[Tom Gregory]

There used to be a lot of nonsense about CC tubas were easier to play in sharp keys. In reality, if you were thinking you’d like to buy buy a CC tuba for that advantage, it probably occurred to you you might be wasting your money. A while back, BBb tubas were more massed produced because they made more of them so the CC tuba became a sign that you were “better” (kind of like having a 6/4 now).
In Germany, their principally played tubas are F and BBb and those instruments and players are quite good.
In England, the Eb tuba ruled for a long time and is still a good choice. Those British Brass Bands are great and they all play BBb and Eb.
I do play CC and F and BBb on occasion. I’ve played some BBb tubas that have tempted me to sell all my stuff (MW Fafner and an Alex BBb). I usually encourage my college students who can only afford one tuba to go the Eb route because of their versatility. They often ask “well why don’t you play Eb?” I respond “it’s too hard to decide which child you like best”.

[windshieldbug]

Same reason most orchestral trumpet players use a C trumpet as a default and not Bb.

[royjohn]

windshieldbug wrote:

Same reason most orchestral trumpet players use a C trumpet as a default and not Bb.

If I'm understanding this right, it is mainly because while band instruments play in flat keys, in the orchestra you have instruments that play in sharp keys, like strings in A. So whereas in a brass band everyone's in flats, in the orchestra you might have the other instruments forcing you to read in some pretty remote keys...

That said, I'm familiar with the teachings of William Vacchiano, among others. He was famous for stressing transposition to his Master's level students at Juilliard. The idea was to pick the horn which was easiest to play for any particular part. That would have to do with the key of the part and the intonation oddities and tendencies of the various horns you might play. The 1st chair might play on C or Eb or D, and the second on something else and the third on another trumpet altogether. I was watching an excerpt with Bernstein from the 50's where the trumpet section was giving him some grief and you could see that the 1st and 2nd chairs were playing C and the 3rd was playing Bb. So while C is the default horn, you are supposed to play in the horn that makes the music easiest to play.

-royjohn

[macbil]

Tom Gregory----German instruments and players are "quite good" ? Really?
Condescending or what ? Misinformed or what?
Wake up!

[Dylan King]

I’ve found over the years that the more I familiarize myself with multiple-keyed horns, different clefs, etc, the better and more efficient my sight-reading gets. Somehow the brain can adjust, and move into whatever keyed horn I happen to be holding, as long as my ear is on that same page.

That being said, I prefer CC as a main sight-reading instrument, since it is like starting from “zero” in the circle of fifths, at least in relation to the piano and string section.

If I could only have one tuba to do everything, I might (however) consider the EEb, for its versatility. But as it stand right now, as I am most used to a CC horn, it is my go-to for orchestra.

[rkirkconnell]

Putting aside the whole "which horn gives me easier fingerings" debate (while an issue, I don't really think that alone would be enough to get a player to learn a whole new set of fingerings), the biggest reason I know is that CC tubas are inherently brighter and clearer than BBb; therefore, you have an easier time fitting in with the brass section (and particularly the bass trombone), and your part can be "heard" more relative to being "felt." Especially for top level players who can easily overcome any difficulties caused by the pitch of the horn relative to the music, I believe that their ideal sound concept is much more of a driving factor.

[groth]

Putting aside the whole "which horn gives me easier fingerings" debate (while an issue, I don't really think that alone would be enough to get a player to learn a whole new set of fingerings), the biggest reason I know is that CC tubas are inherently brighter and clearer than BBb; therefore, you have an easier time fitting in with the brass section (and particularly the bass trombone), and your part can be "heard" more relative to being "felt." Especially for top level players who can easily overcome any difficulties caused by the pitch of the horn relative to the music, I believe that their ideal sound concept is much more of a driving factor.

I know of several B flat tubas that fit "brighter and clearer" and can be "heard" instead of felt actually. It's all about the player and mouthpiece selection. Most of the time guys are using gigantic mouthpieces you can park a cadillac sideways in which broadens and diffuses the sound out more to fill the room. My King for instance will play as bright and clean as any 4/4 CC out there. Must have the sound concept already in your head to achieve it though.

[GC]

The only thing that I've seen that I consider universal is that the shorter length of the CC makes response slightly quicker. Some will argue that no one can tell, but I'll just have to disagree. I still prefer Eb and BBb even so.

[Art Hovey]

E above the staff appears fairly often in orchestral tuba parts, but rarely in band tuba parts. That note is risky on a BBb tuba but much safer on a CC.

I don't agree with the "quicker response" argument because band music requires it much more often than orchestra music.

[GC]

Another reason a good number of band players prefer CC.

[ckalaher1]

It’s pretty rare that I post, but I’m kind of “in” this situation currently, so I’ll share. Please take my thoughts as being my OPINION, not any sort of widely held fact. Also, I’m just Joe Public who plays in small orchestras, so please take this with a grain of salt.

Like many-if not most-others, I’ve used a CC as my primary contrabass tuba since my freshman year in college, which means that I haven’t played a Bb outside of elephant room stuff for @26 years. About a year or so ago, I wanted to re-learn the Bb tuba, just for kicks, honestly. Thought it would be a nice challenge to start at the front of the Arban book and learn it back from scratch. So I bought a tuba that I’d blown on a few times and really liked, the B&S GR55 5/4 Bb.

I did my thing with Arban, Bordogni, Bordogni down an octave, Kopprasch, Grigoriev, and a few excerpts. Didn’t really give it all that much thought other than “I’ll use it on my friend’s band concerts” or “I’ll use it as my warm up tuba!” Still played my CC a lot, figuring that when the pandemic was “over”, and gigs started happening again, that I’d play the Bb a little bit, but my CC would be my go-to contrabass, as it has been for the better part of three decades.

But this GR55……crawled into my brain and made a home for itself. Blows me away every time I play it. GREAT pitch. GREAT response. GREAT ergonomics. But more than anything else………I just can’t shake how much I enjoy the way it sounds. Very very colorful AND flexible sound. Plays very evenly in each register. A really wonderful instrument.

So while I’ll probably always have a CC tuba around, I’m kind of on the brink of transitioning to using this Bb as my primary contrabass for orchestral stuff, audition material, brass choir, etc.

I had some preconceived notions about the Bb before I really gave it a chance. I though the response would be sluggish, I thought it would be a challenge if playing in a sharp key, and I thought I’d lose a step with facility at the top of and above the staff. I was wrong on every count.

Anyhow, just thought I’d share.

[DiveBomber]

Tradition.