Can you stand another Cc vs Eb question?

[christinafrancais]

I've read everything I could find on the web, and unfortunately, opinions vary. Terribly undecided. Because of my short stature, light frame and upper middle age group, I have to choose a tuba that will be a pleasure to play without breaking my back. I now play the euphonium and the orchestra director asked me to switch to tuba. I can't wait. He suggested CC, but now I think that a lighter Eb would work best for me. Is that sound thinking?

This amateur orchestra was just started in summer and is composed mainly of youngsters ages 12 to 18, sprinkled with a few adults, roughly 35 members. Brass has 3 trumpets, 3 horns but no other low brass then me. So could Eb be sufficient? And would a 3 valve do for my purpose?

Thank you for your advice.

[barry grrr-ero]

Are you already proficient at either C or Eb tuba? If you are a treble clef reading euphonium player, the switch to Eb would be quicker for you. If you go Eb tuba, I think you should go with a 4 valve compensating model. That way you can extend down into the contrabass tuba territory, without having to learn how to work a fifth valve. My opinion is that 3 valves would be too limiting on an Eb. Wessex and Schiller make nice, 4 valve compensating Eb tubas that are relatively inexpensive (I said RELATIVELY!). I have no idea what your budget is.

If you want a good CC tuba that isn't heavy, you might want to look at the Eastman 832. It does have five valves. I tried one recently, and I'm seriously thinking of making the switch to one. It was relatively light weight and fit me like a glove. It also played really well in-tune for a CC tuba. Again, I don't know what your budget is.

If you live anywhere near Chicago, you might want to go to the Wessex showroom and try things out. I have no idea what they have in-stock at the moment. They make several models of 4 valve compensating Eb tubas. Good luck!

[christinafrancais]

I haven't yet learned a new fingering. Yes, treble but I'm persistent and can make this brain learn something new. Finances are restricted to at the most 1500, so I was thinking to look for a used / older tuba vs. Shiny new and less expensive.

[christinafrancais]

Between Nashville and Memphis.

[Snake Charmer]

PM sent

[Michael Grant]

Since you already play a Bb instrument, you might consider a Bb tuba. There are many smaller Bb horns available. This would also open the door to bass clef euphonium music if you currently play treble. Having owned and played the four major keys in tuba, in order of learning, owning and playing (Bb, CC, F, Eb) I am now back to Bb. For whatever that is worth. I don’t really see the need to get a CC in your situation. A BBb would be just fine in orchestra. The director wouldn’t know the difference unless someone said “this is a CC or a Bb tuba). There is this belief (one that I thought for years) that one needed a CC for orchestra playing vs BBb. There are credible arguments in each camp and each camp feels very strongly that they are correct. Both work just fine in the orchestra and no one the audience knows or cares what key your tuba is in. Sorry to ramble. Best of luck.

Also, for what it is worth. My main tuba for all playing since 2000 has been a large bore Eb Willson. I only mention this so you know that these comments are coming from an Eb player. The last 3 years has had been going back to Bb in my need for a large tuba and that big tuba sound. If you are playing in a large or larger orchestra, the Eb will not provide the “bottom” needed that a large tuba provides. For chamber works my Willson works great but a full orchestra needs the aural weight of a bigger tuba. This is something to consider when you purchase this next horn.

[christinafrancais]

Bb sure would broaden the available choices of used tuba. Thank you for this tip.

Christina

[circusboy]

Unless you have the need to play standing, just get a rest for your tuba of any size to sit on and be supported. I did that. Yes, there's a bit of lifting and maneuvering to get it on there, but it has changed my life.

I, too, am middle-aged and on the smaller end of middle-sized. For those reasons, I spent years playing smaller tubas. Ultimately, I realized that a smaller tuba was unsatisfactory for me, sound-wise. I even went so far as to sell everything I had, tuba-related, thinking that I was throwing in the towel. That lasted for a few months before I was jonesing for a tuba again. I ended up getting a 6/4 BBb. It's huge and heavy, but once I get it set up on my playing stand and start blowing, it is clearly the most satisfying sound experience I've had in my many years of on-and-off playing.

[christinafrancais]

Hmm.. I'll keep that in mind as it broadens the selection. Thanks!

[Boomer]

A BBb would be just fine in orchestra. The director wouldn’t know the difference unless someone said “this is a CC or a Bb tuba). There is this belief (one that I thought for years) that one needed a CC for orchestra playing vs BBb. There are credible arguments in each camp and each camp feels very strongly that they are correct. Both work just fine in the orchestra and no one the audience knows or cares what key your tuba is in. Sorry to ramble. Best of luck.

It's a digression, but thank you for saying this.

I got kicked out of the local community orchestra because the director said he "really needed a C tuba for the orchestral repertoire", mostly because the local university tuba guru insisted that only C horns were suitable for orchestral work.

I played a professional quality Bb and rather competently if I may say so, and after i was replaced by a student of said university guru, I couldn't tell any difference sitting in the audience.

[Sousaswag]

Eb *might* be enough. I just bought a big 5v non-compensating Eb, and am thoroughly enjoying it. Super easy to play in all registers. I think you could get by using a larger Eb, but you might be more satisfied with a contrabass horn either in CC or BBb. In order for Eb to be viable, you need a compensating horn or a 5 valve non compensating horn. 3 valve Eb tubas are just about useless as they bottom out at A below the staff.

[Dan Tuba]

A BBb would be just fine in orchestra. The director wouldn’t know the difference unless someone said “this is a CC or a Bb tuba). There is this belief (one that I thought for years) that one needed a CC for orchestra playing vs BBb. There are credible arguments in each camp and each camp feels very strongly that they are correct. Both work just fine in the orchestra and no one the audience knows or cares what key your tuba is in. Sorry to ramble. Best of luck.

It's a digression, but thank you for saying this.

I got kicked out of the local community orchestra because the director said he "really needed a C tuba for the orchestral repertoire", mostly because the local university tuba guru insisted that only C horns were suitable for orchestral work.

I played a professional quality Bb and rather competently if I may say so, and after i was replaced by a student of said university guru, I couldn't tell any difference sitting in the audience.

That's terrible and ridiculous! However, the struggle unfortunately is real Plenty of CC tuba players, to include "pros" and "professors" that struggle with note accuracy, intonation, articulation, and quality of timbre to continue making that argument and there are plenty of "pros" and "professors" as well as amateurs that demonstrate excellent musicianship performing on BBb tubas.


This is definitely an issue to consider though when purchasing a specific tuba. It's much easier to "go with the flow." Here in the US, "the flow" is CC tuba. The good thing is that our parts aren't rocket science, so it's not too hard to switch to different tubas to make others happy and have a job. It's just expensive, lol

Good luck on your search. If you look on Facebook (tuba Euphonium marketplace), there's a JinBao 186 CC clone for sale close to your budget in the Nashville area.

[ghmerrill]

You seem partly swayed by the thought that an Eb tuba will be significantly lighter than (for example) a BBb tuba. But you need to reconsider this. You surely won't want an Eb to support an orchestra that isn't compensating and (likely) has a 19" bell. That will, under normal circumstances, weigh in at about 18 lbs. (my Wessex Champion does). But my Cerveny 781 4-valve BBb tuba weighed in very close to this (about 19 lbs.). I doubt you can get away with a smaller Eb horn for what you plan to do with it, but there definitely are BBb horns out there in the same weight range or lighter -- and ones built in such a manner that you would likely find them to be easier to horse around than the large-belled Eb. Even if you give up the large bell on Eb and are okay with the result for being the sole tuba support for an orchestra, The weight difference won't be all that great -- those compensating horns weigh a lot because of the extra compensating circuits. So I'd recommend giving more careful attention to the weight and ergonomics of particular instruments rather than focusing on the Eb/Bb/CC choice.

Whichever way you go, a good tuba stand will solve some big problems for you. Deciding to use one (I ended up building my own) was one of the best decisions I made regarding playing the tuba. Should have done it years earlier.

[circusboy]

By the way, the "tuba stand" that I got for myself is a footstool I bought on Amazon for about $30. Just right.

[greenbean]

I use the front of my chair as a stand. Most horns' leadpipes are a bit low so I put one or more small squares of foam under the horn.

[TMurphy]

Could you get by with a Eb? Probably, especially as it's a smallish orchestra. That being said, a CC or BBb would be preferable.

Whichever key you go with, you would need 4 valves at a minimum. On the bigger horns the added valves would give you more options for better intonation, but with an Eb, it's a simple matter of accessing all the needed pitches! A 3 valve Eb simply will not have an adequate range for an orchestra without relying heavily on false tones (which can work, but you'd have to know that the horn in questions has good false tones; not all do).

[ghmerrill]

Whichever key you go with, you would need 4 valves at a minimum.

For the sort of orchestra that seems to be in play in this discussion, I'm not seeing a hard requirement for more than 3 valves on a BBb horn. I wouldn't hesitate to go with a 3-valver in such a circumstance, perhaps with some slide pulling at times. I found that when I had my Cerveny 4-valve BBb, I ended up rarely using the 4th valve, but used the 1st valve slide pull to address most intonation issues. I guess I'd say that a 4-valve BBb is always preferable to have -- just for some ease and versatility. But the absolute need for it is often overestimated.

[GeoffC_UK]

Eb bass tubas are the 'norm' in most UK amateur orchestras.
I used one for many years.
I wish I had had a larger tuba when faced with Russia music.
I wish I had had a smaller tuba when faced with Verdi.
But for most of the repertoire it was more than capable.
The 4v is only essential if you are asked to go lower in the register, as part of the chromatic scale cannot be played without. Otherwise you can get by.
Merry Christmas all.

[ghmerrill]

The 4v is only essential if you are asked to go lower in the register, as part of the chromatic scale cannot be played without.

Um ... not exactly true, but ...
This might argue for a smaller/lighter BBb over a heavier/bulkier Eb compensator. I think I'd be reluctant to face orchestral demands with an uncompensated Eb UNLESS it had REALLY good false tones. One way of looking at the Eb compensator is that holding the 4th valve down turns it into a (relatively heavy) 3-valve BBb. I've used my 3-valve Buescher Eb in band and smaller groups a number of times, and it works -- though it doesn't work so well as the ONLY tuba in a reasonably large ensemble. It has good false tones, and so can handle the pitches required. But it just isn't an orchestra horn.

[Yane]

I did a decade in a small community orchestra using 4 valve Eb compensator. Depending on what your orchestra plays, an Eb may be fine, and actually preferred for 19th century orchestra rep where “tuba” meant Opheclide or bass saxhorn. When I finally got myself a Bb I was glad of the extra sonic heft, especially for pops stuff like movie soundtracks; also the orchestra has grown in size and sound over time. A small Bb/C or big Eb is a good choice for all-rounder horn, It depends on whether you prefer sweating for high notes or sweating for low notes.