(yet another) stuck mouthpiece post

[schleifdog]

I've got a mouthpiece stuck in a sousaphone bit.

I took it to the music shop I usually go to, and they only had a Bobcat mouthpiece puller, which didn't fit the mouthpiece (is this correct in other people's experience; bobcat too small for a tuba mouthpiece?).

Now, I'm calling music stores all around me to ask if they can handle this issue, and no one within a 50 mile radius seems to be able to answer with confidence that they can actually take care of the problem.

I've gotten alot of responses like, "yeah I think we might be able to deal with that, but I've never actually tried to pull a large mouthpiece" And after the experience with the Bobcat, I don't want to waste my time going somewhere where they can't deal.

Any tips?

-Stuck in Rhode Island

[Paul S]

My niece had a similar problem earlier this Summer. She brought the mouthpiece and bit to me. Her band director had not been able to get it off.

I first poured some valve oil through the bit trying to get into any gaps around the end of the mouthpiece shank and let this work for about an hour with the mouthpiece on its rim and bit up in the air to allow gravity to let the oil continue to seep.

I then went to a the sink and placed the shank of the mouthpiece under very cold running water for several minutes (not allowing this to get on the bit). I then immediately ran Very hot water onto the outside of the bit (trying to miss the shank and mouthpiece).

I then took a small wood mallet and tapped along the outside of the bit around the shank. (A plastic tub of peanut butter would work just as well for this since what you want is something with weight but not hard enough to really dent the brass).

I then gave a counter twist to both the mouthpiece and bit using those rubber jar opening sheets and freed the bit.

The bit freed after one try for me but you can repeat this whole process a few times in a row if needed. I have used this method over the years with success each time.

[DCottrell]

When you call the repair shops. ask them if they use a Magnum puller (I think DEG sells them). I have never met a stuck mouthpiece that it would not free. It works like a corkscrew. Allied sells one also but it has been known to bend (mine did on its first use)

[Dan Schultz]

You don't any special pullers to do this. I've ALWAYS gotten good results with a few quick raps around the larger outer ring of the bit with a small hard plastic or rawhide mallet. I can't imagine ANY repair shop not being able to perform this task.

[Rick Denney]

You don't any special pullers to do this. I've ALWAYS gotten good results with a few quick raps around the larger outer ring of the bit with a small hard plastic or rawhide mallet. I can't imagine ANY repair shop not being able to perform this task.

AMEN!

Rick "who thinks a small rawhide mallet and a modicum of training are essential tools for brass musicians" Denney

[Dean E]

Agree w/ mallet method. One well placed rap is better than a lot of tiny taps. A sharp rap will often free stuck slides and mouthpieces where slow steady pressure would rip the horn apart before things moved. Ask anyone who's ever taken knock- offs off an old sports car...... same idea.

The mouthpiece receiver must be supported:
(1) By positioning the MP receiver on an anvil, bench vise, or the like; or
(2) by placing a heavy piece of wood, brass, or steel behind the MP receiver and directly opposite the hammer location.
We know that, but I didn't want anyone to start pounding any instrument's mouthpiece receiver with a hammer. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

[Dan Schultz]

Agree w/ mallet method. One well placed rap is better than a lot of tiny taps. A sharp rap will often free stuck slides and mouthpieces where slow steady pressure would rip the horn apart before things moved. Ask anyone who's ever taken knock- offs off an old sports car...... same idea.

The mouthpiece receiver must be supported:
(1) By positioning the MP receiver on an anvil, bench vise, or the like; or
(2) by placing a heavy piece of wood, brass, or steel behind the MP receiver and directly opposite the hammer location.
We know that, but I didn't want anyone to start pounding any instrument's mouthpiece receiver with a hammer. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

I get the best results by holding the bit/neck/mouthpiece in my hand and using a fast... sharp rap directly on the stuck joint. I suppose everyone develops their own methods but I can't imagine placing a stuck assembly on a vise or piece of brass/steel and hitting it with a hammer.

Sean probably needs to kill this thread before kids all over The World rip apart their horns trying to figure out the difference between a 'rap', a 'tap', or a 'whack'

[Rick Denney]

Sean probably needs to kill this thread before kids all over The World rip apart their horns trying to figure out the difference between a 'rap', a 'tap', or a 'whack'

The way to avoid the problem is to use a small rawhide mallet. Ferrees sells one that is flat on one side and has a chisel shape on the other side. It weighs very little, and therefore won't carry a lot of momentum into the piece. This is a mallet, not a hammer. Anything that can be described by the word "hammer" is too big in the hands of anything but a master technician.

The more powerful the tool, the more skill is required in its use.

I also have never had to use an anvil to back up my light taps. I hold the mouthpiece with its attached bit in my left hand, and the mallet in my right hand. I tap it right on the collar of the receiver where it wraps around the collar. If I miss and hit my hand, it should not hurt even a little. I increase the speed of the blow until it comes loose. I'd much rather approach the right impact force from the light side than attempt a single blow and deform something.

If anyone can really destroy anything, they are using a mallet or hammer that is too big for their skill. That's why I use really small mallets (I have really small skill).

Rick "who thinks the secret to technician skill is using lots of properly aimed light taps to do the work of one big whack" Denney

[Dean E]

I think there are two sticky questions here:

1. MP stuck in a Sousaphone tuning bit. No problem banging away because none of the hammer force will be transferred to the horn. Support the MP and tuning bit in your hand or even your lap and whack away.

2. MP stuck in a horn's receiver. Hammering forces will be transfered via the leadpipe to the bell or valve casing. Any braces and soldered connections will either transfer the energy or fail. Avoid damage by supporting the receiver directly opposite the hammer blows. The same technique of backing up the hammer is used when removing automotive tie rod ends.

I'm reminded of my youthful days when I worked as a machinist and had a small collection of hammers for use, depending on how far I wanted to adjust a cutting tool or workpiece. There was the two thousandths hammer, the five thousandths hammer, etc.

[Rick Denney]

Given that with a big enough hammer or mallet (and the the 40 pound head wood things that drive tent pegs in are both mallets and big enough to put to rest any theory that hammers are per say bigger than mallets)

Okay, a mallet is a special case of a hammer, and is used for "striking other tools or for striking a surface without marring". Make is small and made of rawhide, and it's a lot different than the 16-ounce claw hammer that springs to mind in response to the word "hammer".

The complaint was that we were leading the innocently ignorant astray, and I submit that "small rawhide mallet" is less likely to do so than "hammer".

Yes, my approach is conservative in line with my limited skills. Technicians are just as prudent, but they understand better the relationship between cause and effect.

I have also used that small rawhide mallet to loosen stuck valve caps by hitting them with a glancing blow, so I don't think that tool will easily transmit damaging force through the receiver to the body of the instrument.

Rick "who thinks the right tool is safe enough" Denney