Help needed, identifiing a tuba!!!

[simonm2903]

Dear tubist
Im new here, as a trumpet player-15yeard and last 5 euphonium player, our brass band uš in need for a Bb or C tuba
I am in searching something Like Miraphone 186, ofc second hand

I found a Miraphone ( no engrave on the Bell, not sure if is miraphone or not) and a Weltklang, both Bb , size 4/4
Take a Look please and if someone knows if its original Miraphone 90a Kaisers or not, please


https://photos.app.goo.gl/J9Aeiaa1ZJy2attu5

The last picture on the left is that miraphone and right Weltklang

Thank you ALL

Regards
Simon

[simonm2903]

Please for any kind of help
Thx you

[daktx2]

Hello!

The Weltklang is a rebadged B and S 101. These are great, standard sized, easy to play tubas as long as the mechanical condition is good, and are comparable in size to the Miraphone 186.

The Miraphone looking oneappears to be a 189 or 190 kaiser tuba, though looking at he paddles, it's old enough that it might predate the numbering system. Both of these are significantly bigger than a 186 There were a couple of manufacturers that rebadged Miraphone back in the day, so the lack of an engraving isn't super strange. I honestly don't know how to tell the difference between these 2 models from dimensions alone, as they've wiggled around in dimensions over time, but the 190 is much more common. You can get more sound out of these bigger tubas, but they also are usually harder to steer.

Hope that helps!

[simonm2903]

Thank YOU very much for your infos
Greetings

[Roger Lewis]

I believe both those horns are stencils made by Cerveny.

[greenbean]

The 101 sure looks like a VMI (B&S) product. Those are usually really good players!

[arpthark]

Cervenys of that era would likely not have bell garlands. The first one definitely looks like a 1950s Miraphone 190 to me. The wrap is nearly identical. I had an older Miraphone that had similar braces and was also unlabeled.

The second one is indeed a B&S 101. You can tell by the 45° valve block entry/exit and the distinctive thumb ring flange shape. Weltklang was probably best known as a B&S stencil.