Multiphonics and gender

[ThomasP]

Here's my immediate thought.

With MP it has been my experience that MP's are not effective if you sing a pitch really close to the one being played. That being said, I think the same is true with singing a pitch that is too far away from the one being played. I'm just guessing, but it would seem to me that for the sympathetic pitches that are present in MP to be heard well the sung pitch would need to be near the played pitch.

I have nothing scientific to support any of this, it's just a hunch and a guess. But remember MP isn't just about the harmony created by singing and playing a pitch, but rather the sympathetic pitches that are also present.

[MaryAnn]

I think it's a composer's right to make assumptions on the general pitch of voice that would be used in multiphonics. Where sexism comes into it is that female composers have a lot more trouble getting works played than male composers do, and the assumptions of who most of the players of a particular instrument are. Now, it's reasonable to assume most tuba players are men, but there are a huge number of horn players now who are women, at all levels. So it might behoove composers to find more mid-range MP applications that both men and women can do, to make their pieces performable by a wider range of performers. I'd think that there could be interesting special effects at both ends of the vocal range, though.

MA

[windshieldbug]

My experience with multiphonics is that their use is definately sexist. That is; their use requires a bass, baritone, or low tenor voice close to (within say, an octave of) the pitch played on a tuba. Certainly YMMV

[MaryAnn]

Well, I wonder if trumpet composers use multiphonics? That would seem to lean in the other direction, unless a male had a really good falsetto, or was, heh, a castrati. How many castratis play trumpet?
MA

[Joe Baker]

Well, I wonder if trumpet composers use multiphonics? That would seem to lean in the other direction, unless a male had a really good falsetto, or was, heh, a castrati. How many castratis play trumpet?
MA

I thought they all did...
___________________________
Joe Baker, in whose *OPINION* MP is just another silly noise you can make with a horn, not really "music".

[windshieldbug]

Well, I wonder if trumpet composers use multiphonics?

Since you mention that, now I wonder myself. If they don't use it, is it because a male composing corps doesn't have the "chops"?

[MaryAnn]

BTW, if you want first hand experience at Pythagorean or whatever the other name was for low-ratio intonation, you can find it trying to sing MPs. The tuba doesn't want to resonate with a vocal pitch that isn't in the harmonic series of the note being buzzed.
MA

[imperialbari]

Somebody a few years ago did a research about the behaviour of the vocal chords of professional horn players.

The outcome was, that male as well as female players had their airstream oscillate at the pitch of the intended note. The oscillation being induced by the vocal chords of the player.

If the notes descended below the vocal range of the females, their vocal chords made the airstream oscillate one octave up.

Somehow I tend to believe the same goes for male tuba players. At least my lowest note on whatever of my several Eb and BBb basses (OK it's only 7) is about 2 and a half octaves below my lowest sung note.

Actually I think, that female tuba players can induce much more complex multiphonics, than any male player will be able to do.

That's if he hasn't played his ballbuster models a bit too often! Courtesy by Besson, Boosey, and/or Hawkes.

Klaus

[ken k]

when one performs a MP you sing a note above the played pitch so a woman's voice should have no problem performing a MP just most likely an octave higher than a man would perform. I would think if a woman were to sing the MP pitch an octave higher than what the composer originally wrote the composer would not care one bit. I would think the composer would be happy the piece is being performed regardless of whether it is by a man or woman and whether or not the MP is transposed an octave higher. There could be situations where a man with a low voice could not sing the MP pitch high enough also. He then would have to sing the pitch down an octave. That could possibly cause more problems than singing it an octave higher.

We are not talking classic pieces by Bach, Mozart or Beethoven here. The soloist always has interpretive and editorial leeway.
ken k

[Uncle Buck]

It seems to me like this is an issue where composers should better label their compositions. For example, Kraft "should" have labelled Encounters II as a piece for a "tubist/baritone (or whatever) vocalist", instead of just a tuba piece.

It isn't sexist to write in a particular vocal range, but it does show an underlying attitude that is a little sexist for composers to assume that all tubists do (or should) have a particular vocal range.

[Stefan Kac]

I think there are more possibilities for singing below the note than have been mentioned. I've learned to sing a perfect fourth below any note from about middle C up to G or so. I came up with this as a way to imitate Coltrane's particular way of landing on a high note, which often involved some sort of multiphonic or growl (which I don't entirely understand because I'm not a saxophonist). The effect, however, transfers to tuba quite well. The interval is clear enough to use as if you were playing both notes on a piano or whatever, although I think I can get away with using this effect "non-funtionally" also.

As for calling multiphonics "not really music", I am somewhat bothered by these sorts of remarks, particularly considering the relative youth of the tuba and the very limited repertoire available for it that resides in the world of "real music" so defined. This may sound fanciful, self-aggrandizing, or both, but for me, the most exciting thing about being both a tubist and creative musician is the chance to play a meaningful role in shaping the very course of the instrument's (and music's) history, or at least to be present and on the cutting edge of it. I'd be much happier playing Mozart piano sonatas than the Vaughan Williams concerto, but the opportunities to break new ground keep me coming back to the big horn. (and I'm a terrible pianist, but that's beside the point...)µ

[Henry Gertcher]

My disclamer: I am a really bad singer and probably an average tubist. That being said I will throw in my two cents.

From what I know about mulitphonics is that they were originally played on French horns. I forget who was first atributed to playing them or where I read it so I can research it right now.

My experience is that by playing a note, say C below the staff and singing the perfect fith above (G) you can hear both notes and you can get an E to sound above the note being sung. I don't remember the exact physics behind this but it is all relative to the harmonic series. The same thing can be performed at a piano. A neat trick to try is to hold down a key without sounding the pitch; say the G below middle C and play the C below the bass clef staff. Hit the note hard and release the key immediately. You will hear the G clearly. This will work with most of the notes in the harmonic series.

I guess MP would include any sung note either above or below a played note however I have only used it to build a chord. It does work if the difference between the two notes is more than an octave but I have never been able to tune them to hear the third. That being said, I guess it would depend on the effect the composer was going for. It could be for building a chord or for singing a melody over a constant bass note or for more of a growling effect. So I would say that it is not a gender issue but more of a vocal range issue. One last thought, I would say it is sexist for the composer to assume a vocal range for a performer but I couldn't blame them for writing for a bass or low tenor voice as it is my experience that there are far fewer female tuba players.

Henry Gertcher

[Steve Marcus]

One example that comes to mind immediately is Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull, who added lots of spice to his flute solos with multiphoncs.

Hmmm...Just remembered David Amram effectively playing Pakastini flute with multiphonics in his own compositions.

Multiphoncs can be used--or abused.

[Mark Preece]

I started experimenting with MP when I was at university. I ended up having a lot of fun, and wrote a little ditty to help with this... I think you know it!

http://www.sibeliusmusic.com/cgi-bin/sh ... reid=19465