Conn 24J Consensus

[Billy M.]

Ok,

I have been trying to research about older BATs and put them in a log but I haven't found much in the opinion of Conn 24Js.

I wanna know its strengths, weaknesses, pros, cons, everything there is to know about it.

What did you like and not like about it?

All input is appreciated.

[Steve Marcus]

A big, woofy sound with occasionally questionable intonation.

A very fun horn to play, for the appropriate applications.

[Rick Denney]

Ok,

I have been trying to research about older BATs and put them in a log but I haven't found much in the opinion of Conn 24Js.

I wanna know its strengths, weaknesses, pros, cons, everything there is to know about it.

What did you like and not like about it?

All input is appreciated.

I owned a 20J for a while, which is quite similar. The 2xJ's typically have a very flat third partial, requiring, for example, 1-3 for F at the bottom of the staff. Mine did not seem to want to make a sound below about mf, though I have played better examples of 2xJ's that played more softly. It's not what I would call a light touch instrument, but it makes a colorful sound, especially when used with the right mouthpiece. It is designed to be played with a tuning bit between the mouthpiece and the leadpipe.

If you get one, go for an older one and get it with an upright bell. It's easy to find forward bells for these if you want to add it later, but it's quite hard to find a loose upright bell for a 2xJ.

Rick "who thinks the Holton is a much better BAT" Denney

[GC]

I recently bought a 25J (same horn, upright bell) from Lee Stofer. I've played 20Js several times that had flat 3rd and 5th partials, but they were always manageable. This horn has no trouble with the flat F and D. It is remarkably well in tune throughout its range and notes can be lipped easily.

These horns respond easily. They have a big, dark, rubbery, bassy tone, and have an easy high range and exceptional low range. You can get a big sound without having to use a huge amount of air. Some tubas have too much resistance when using 4th valve combinations for low range, especially 1-2-3-4 for low C, but these horns produce that note fairly easily. The open low Eb used for priviliged tones speaks very well, and the range down to low B responds well and is decently in tune.

You can rattle people's teeth with those things or play reasonably delicately if you need to. I bought mine because I need to be able to put a big bottom under the sound of my local community band and brass band, and this horn just plays so well.

The 20J weighs in at 28 pounds. The 4th valve assembly adds about 2 pounds to this puppy, so it weighs in at 30-31 pounds. My only worry is that I'm getting older, and I may have to hire a roadie just to carry the blamed thing for me. Or maybe even exercise (yuck!).

I agree with Rick: the Holton is a better BAT, and is my favorite horn. I'll never find one in decent shape in my price range, so the Conn was my best bet.

[cjk]

A big, woofy sound with occasionally questionable intonation.

agree.

A very fun horn to play, for the appropriate applications.

disagree.

[GC]

Just a little addendum to my previous comments:

The 24J and its kin, the 25J, are niche instruments. They're awfully big to be used in a quintet or other small ensemble, though I've done it before. They're not an orchestral instrument because their tones are so dark; they're designed for a fat sound that is to be as much felt as heard. Calling the sound "woofy" is a pretty apt description. They sound like a monster Sousaphone on steroids. They don't give the clarion tone that so many people prefer; instead, the sound is spread and less directional. They're not that good for Dixieland because of their sheer weight, unless you really are fit or are able to sit.

They're pretty much a band instrument. They can put a beautiful bottom on a band's sound. Jacksonville State University's band has used them for four decades or more. They currently have a couple of dozen of them, and they can shake the earth with them (although, honestly, I've heard the section be much louder with fewer players in the past).

Good ones play easily; as long as a horn has good valves and no leaks or dents in critical places in the tubing, these horns are not difficult to play in tune. However, if you're a player who prefers to manipulate slides rather than lip pitches, these horns are defininely not for you. Their valve slides are just not made for easy access. Unqestionably, some 2XJ's have middle F's and high D's that are horrendously flat to the point of having to use alternate fingerings every time. Some people blame the oval ports on the short-stroke valves of the 2XJ series for their intonation problems and point to the 3XJ full-stroke horns as being much better; personally, I can tell little difference. Also, on some of these horns the valves bounce when released, and this drives some people crazy.

You are pretty unlikely to see any serious professional use these horns except as a specialty instrument. Still, if you want a BBb band horn with huge booty in the sound, the only better choice is horns costing much, much more, like the 5/4 or 6/4 Rudy Meinl, or an old Martin or Holton 345.

[ken k]

I never felt these horns played well enough to put up with the lousy ergonomics. I always felt they were too hard to handle and hold for the sound that they got.

ken k