Lightning storms and Sousaphones

Ace · Post by **Ace** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:51 pm

I checked the archives and there is nothing on the subject of lightning storms and brass instruments such as Sousaphones. I was just watching a nature film on TV which had some beautiful shots of lightning bolts. For some reason, I wondered about the danger to brass players outdoors (football games, parades, etc.) if an electrical storm should suddenly develop. The closest I came to such exposure was when I was playing in an Army band at Fort Lewis WA. The outdoor honor guard ceremony was quickly canceled, and we finished it indoors. I never knew if we were sent indoors because of heavy rain or because of the fierce lightning. Anyone have knowledge and experience with this sort of thing? Is there an incresed danger to brass players?

Hank74 · Post by **Hank74** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:28 pm

As a sousaphone player myself, I know what you're talking about. I march in my band with a fiberglass sousa for that reason of risking a lightning storm if I had my silver Jupiter. There was one close call this year with a rainstorm, but we missed it.

While I like brass sousas over fiberglass, I have to go with the latter when it comes to outdoor marching and/or playing.

Hank74

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:47 pm

Lightning takes the path of least resistance. I wouldn't want to stand out in the middle of a hundred acre field with a sousa but I think in a stadium where there are may things much higher... such as lights, etc... I wouldn't think it would be much of a risk. That being said, ... I'm not one to be outside during electrical storms, anyway

Shock... get it

Tim Olt · Post by **Tim Olt** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:59 pm

Back in the 80s a fellow tubist at Paramount's King's Island was struck and killed by lightning while carrying his tuba in it's gigbag. As the employee parking lot was at the time, there were no light poles, so someone walking in the lot was potentially the highest point. I continued working there until around 2000 but would not walk to my car during rain or storms again.

Shockwave · Post by **Shockwave** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:07 pm

I hope you all have better things to worry about than being struck by lightning while playing sousaphone.

-Eric

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:32 pm

Sam wrote:Oh i deffinatly get the creeps when we are marching in the rain and there is thunder.....nothing like a 6' guy with a sousa that makes him 7'5". talk about being the tallest thing around...

I wonder that people worry about a foot or two, or the relative conductivity of brass or wet fiberglass.

After all, the lightning bolt has enough potential energy to jump an air gap of, oh, a mile or two. A foot one way or the other seems negligible.

Lightning may strike anything or anyone, whether or not they are carrying a tuba.

A direct hit is nearly always fatal. But most casualties of lightning are not from direct hits (except for fisherman in boats, golfers in the middle of open fairways, etc.). Most are from the gradient of potential energy as it dissipates horizontally into the ground. What kills farm animals is that they stand on four legs, and the potential energy is so different between front and rear legs that some of the current passes through their bodies. For this reason, I would rather stand and risk a direct hit than lie down and risk injury from a near miss.

There were four people injured by lightning a few miles from where we live a couple of months ago. The lightning hit a tree next to which the four were standing. None were killed, though one was seriously injured. But one of them (the daughter of an acquaintance) lost her dog, who was standing next to her.

The only safe place to be with lightning in the area is indoors, sousaphone or no.

Rick "who has had more close-up experiences with lightning, tornados, and hurricanes in Virginia than at any time while living in hurricane-prone Houston and tornado-belt Dallas" Denney

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:37 pm

You know what they say: You don't have to be the shortest sousaphone, just the first one off the field...

lprince · Post by **lprince** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:52 pm

A similar question *struck* me once when I was on a gig. I was sitting next to the piano and guitar players who had all their electronics and everything plugged inbehind me. Halfway through the gig I looked down where I had been emptying my spit and realized there was a large puddle around the power strip. Has anyone every been killed by their own spit? I suppose wearing shoes would probably prevent this- in any case, still scared me a little.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:06 pm

lprince wrote:A similar question *struck* me once when I was on a gig. I was sitting next to the piano and guitar players who had all their electronics and everything plugged inbehind me. Halfway through the gig I looked down where I had been emptying my spit and realized there was a large puddle around the power strip. Has anyone every been killed by their own spit? I suppose wearing shoes would probably prevent this- in any case, still scared me a little.

Most outdoor venues should have ground-fault interruption in the branches used for stage equipment. Indoors, it might be a little harder to find a good ground on the floor (unless the puddle is really large). GFI checks to make sure the current coming back is the same as the current going out, and will trip the circuit very quickly if any current finds a leak. I suspect the bigger risk is shorting the strip out, blowing a breaker, and causing the music to become MUCH quieter (assuming the stand lights aren't also plugged into that strip), and then being whacked over the head by the angry guitar player. But power strips under the water keys are really not a good idea even if the risk is fairly small.

Rick "who has managed to find a way to accidentally turn off underfoot power strip switches with his feet on a number of occasions" Denney

Tom Holtz · Post by **Tom Holtz** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:07 pm

Rick Denney wrote:...the lightning bolt has enough potential energy to jump an air gap of, oh, a mile or two...most casualties of lightning are not from direct hits... Most are from the gradient of potential energy as it dissipates horizontally into the ground...the potential energy is so different between front and rear legs...

Duhhhh... ummmm... uhhhhh.... me play toobah. push button make sound.

tubatooter1940 · Post by **tubatooter1940** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:08 pm

A fellow was killed in my neighborhood while sitting on a commode next to a window fan,so I make a point of avoiding plumbing during lightning storms and never practice my tuba on a commode near a window fan.
We played an America's Junior Miss competition in an auditorium with a cement floor. On the dark stage I failed to see the puddle in front of my mike and when my lip touched the mike with both feet in the puddle the shock was horrendous.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:15 pm

lprince wrote:... I looked down where I had been emptying my spit and realized there was a large puddle around the power strip. Has anyone every been killed by their own spit? I suppose wearing shoes would probably prevent this- in any case, still scared me a little.

I don't know about this. I do know that dogs have been killed by peeing on the wrong pole/junction box. So, I guess you shouldn't pee on the power strips at gigs.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:21 pm

Electrical shock is life-threatening only if a sufficient current passes through a critical part of the body; i.e., through the head or heart. Merely having a puddle at your feet without touching your head or arms or upper body to a conductor is low on the risk scale.

That's why the golden rule for electronics technicians who need to adjust live high-power equipment is "One hand in the back pocket"--with insulated shoes, there's little danger of forming a circuit through the body trunk, should the other hand accidentally touch a current source.

That's not to say that you still can't get your bell rung. I learned this years ago when adjusting a rack-mounted transmitter. I failed to note that I was standing just inches away from a cinder-block block wall at my back. I accidentally touched a 3KV high-voltage supply wire and the resulting muscle contraction slammed my elbow into the wall with enough force that I saw stars. Left a nasty bruise, but didn't break anything.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:16 pm

Tom Holtz wrote:
Rick Denney wrote:...the lightning bolt has enough potential energy to jump an air gap of, oh, a mile or two...most casualties of lightning are not from direct hits... Most are from the gradient of potential energy as it dissipates horizontally into the ground...the potential energy is so different between front and rear legs...
Duhhhh... ummmm... uhhhhh.... me play toobah. push button make sound.

Just don't do it outdoors in a lightning storm.

Rick "Sheesh. Jar-heads" Denney

p.s., it was a joke. Please don't beat me up--R "scared of Marines" D

ThomasDodd · Post by **ThomasDodd** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:04 pm

Most marching events will not happen when lightning is present.

In college, we'd practice and performe in the rain (minus the WW). But if lightning was present, not a chance. Practice/show stopped and everyone off the feild.

Recent DCA (senior drum corps) even in Georga was delayed mid way through fro about 20 minutes waiting for the lightning to clear the area.

Anterux · Post by **Anterux** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:53 am

Here in Azores there is a worse threat.

In the feasts where the marching band goes to play, there are fireworks.

Those fireworks many times are being fired like rockets by people with no license to do it. And sometimes those people are DRUNK!

the fireworks have a wood cane that can hit you.

We have berets. but we would prefer helmets sometimes.