Why no EEb's?

[Leland]

Because they're constantly trying to find CC's and F's that aren't problematic, while people's EEb tubas all play just fine, and therefore generate less discussion.

just kidding..

[Gorilla Tuba]

EEb tubas are certainly a valid bass tuba, and, in the opinion of many, a great all-around instrument. Many professionals use EEbs. Based on my personal observations, it seems that there seems to be a lot less discussion of EEb because they are not bought and sold as often as F tubas. Not that they are any better or worse. Lets face it, with the exception of the Besson front action EEb, there have not been any major design changes. In contrast, there seems to be a "New and Improved" F tuba out every year.

In short, I think there is not much of a bias against EEb. They are just not a gossip/ news worthy because of their consistency.

[Kevin Miller]

To the contrary. Eb tubas have had quite a resurgence in the past 10 years. I bought my Besson 981 back in 1990, before Eb horns were cool again. I was sort of looking at the new big Yamaha F at a certain establishment in North Carolina when I noticed a lonely and unloved used Besson 981 stuck in the corner. The F was ok until I tried the Besson. Man, that horn had the sound and feel I was looking for! It felt right in an almost spiritual sense. I was also playing a Mirafone 1865UCC at the time. The Besson played so similarly to the Mirafone, I eventually got rid of the Mirafone.
I played that horn for everything from orchestra to quintet with nary a complaint from any conductor or contractor. One college band director I played for for a short time had no idea I was playing an Eb in his band until I told him (during a rehearsal), at which time he he made a slanderous comment about my horn saying he thought something "sounded out of tune back there". What a shmuck! He said nothing about the tuba section tuning until he found out there was an Eb in the section, a section of two I might ad.
That was my only horn until just recently when I purchased a Schmidt 3302. I have been do more large ensemble playing lately, sometimes by my self, where the Besson just didn't have the weight of tone I needed. It's great to have an Eb in a tuba section if all the players are pulling their weight. It sits nicely on the upper octave of split part sections. The elevated quality and selection Eb horns is a testimomy to their growing poularity.

[Lew]

...The F was ok until I tried the Besson. Man, that horn had the sound and feel I was looking for! It felt right in an almost spiritual sense. ...

That was my only horn until just recently when I purchased a Schmidt 3302. I have been do more large ensemble playing lately, sometimes by my self, where the Besson just didn't have the weight of tone I needed. It's great to have an Eb in a tuba section if all the players are pulling their weight. It sits nicely on the upper octave of split part sections. The elevated quality and selection Eb horns is a testimomy to their growing poularity.

The first tuba I played (other than the fiberglass sousaphone I learned on) was the high school's 3 valve Besson compensating BBb. Maybe it's nostalgia, but there's still something about the sound and feel of that horn that I remember as the standard that I look for when playing.

I recently decided to buy an Eb to try something new and to use in small ensembles. I got a Besson 983 and it comes close to the sound I remember. I have been using it in the larger of the community bands in which I play and I think it adds clarity to the section having an Eb with all those BBbs (and one CC). I use my BBb in the smaller band, where I'm the only tuba player because I can get more breadth to the low end.

I could probably use the Eb for everything, but I like having different horns for different situations. Also, those of us who are just getting by as players spend too much time talking about equipment because our playing's not worth talking about.

[jlbreyer]

If that's a 'Triton' does it have three valves??

[ken k]

Musicianship is not based on technology.

You're right!

Cool! Is that a C or Bb Conch?

ken "sorry, I just couldn't resist" k
PS cool photo BTW beautiful shell
I love Sanctified Shells by Steve Turre

[Dan Schultz]

This would lead you to believe that EEb tubas are of lower quality than the other keys. This of course isn't true. There are many quality EEb's out now. Two of the worlds best tubists play on them, so they can't be bad. So why no EEb?

I use EEb tubas about 50% of the time... a Miraphone 183-4 for serious stuff and an old 4V piston King for Dixie work. It seems to me that folks who play EEb horns are happy with what they have and aren't wrapped up in a continual quest for a 'better horn'. The CC's get more attention in terms of quality because they seem to be the choice of the professionals. I've never clearly understood by CC horns dominate orchestral environments. In fact, I think I'll start another thread asking 'why CC?' I've never owned a CC horn and would like for someone to tell me why I should.

[JB]

...'why CC?'...

At one time the oft' heard reason included that the CC was a little more orchestral-key friendly than it's "band-use" BBb cousin.

Not taking sides here, just tossing this out for whatever it is worth.

[Dan Schultz]

...'why CC?'...

At one time the oft' heard reason included that the CC was a little more orchestral-key friendly than it's "band-use" BBb cousin.

Not taking sides here, just tossing this out for whatever it is worth.

With that being said, can anyone please elaborate in terms that a hobbiest can understand?

[CJ Krause]

***

[Allen]

Regarding the "orchestral" key friendliness of CC tubas versus BBb tubas, I see their point, but don't think it's important. The fact is, for any given key of tuba, some music keys will keep your fingers busier than other music keys. If you don't always practice all twelve major plus all the minor scales and arpeggios, you are not going to find it easy to play in the less usual keys.

Orchestras play in sharp keys more often than flat keys. Bands play in flat keys more often than sharp keys. When I play my CC tuba in the key of Db, it's like a BBb player playing in the key of B. Since my practicing always includes scales, etc. in the key of Db, I don't mind playing in that key. Not all BBb players are comfortable in the key of B, but if you play in an orchestra, you will find that key used.

My teacher insists that I learn all keys with equal facility, and he's right. I haven't got all the way there, but already I am indifferent to what key a piece is in. With that attitude, I don't think any particular key of tuba is either an advantage or a disadvantage.

A further thought: Anyone who considers any brass instrument fingerings difficult should try to learn a woodwind instrument, particularly an older type without a helpful key mechanism.

Allen Walker

[Dan Schultz]

You mean something easy, like a Bassoon?

I sold a bassoon a few months ago because I didn't have enough thumbs to play it!

[JB]

...'why CC?'...

At one time the oft' heard reason included that the CC was a little more orchestral-key friendly than it's "band-use" BBb cousin.

Not taking sides here, just tossing this out for whatever it is worth.

Well, I think the its wrong to say CC is more friendly to the orchestral-use, because that is really up to the tubist...

True that it is up to the player, but would you not agree that -- at least in North America -- there seems to be a solid majority of tubists who use CC as their primary "large" orchestral instrument?

[TubaRay]

I guess I am one of the few to use the CC for polka playing. In fact, in the TubaMeisters, we have two guys who play Besson euphoniums, plus myself on a CC Miraphone and another player on a BBb Miraphone. At least that is our most usual configuration. We have a total of five players to make our gigs(as a quartet). Sometimes we have a BB Rudy Meinl on the bottom part. Sometimes one of the euphoniums is a Miraphone.

That sounds kind of confusing, doesn't it? Well, to put it simply, I usually play the first tuba part on my CC Miraphone.

I believe Doc is right. There are not many polka guys playing CC tubas.

[Chuck(G)]

I believe Doc is right. There are not many polka guys playing CC tubas.

Besides, it's kind of hard to find a helicon in CC...

[tubatooter1940]

Popular music is often dominated by guitarists who prefer to play in
A,E,D,G and C. If a guitarist would accomodate a tuba in E flat by using
a capo on the first fret,this opens up the keys of B flat,F,E flat,A flat etc...
-great keys in which to inprovise.Yip yip yahoo!
The Fartman

[Dan Schultz]

Popular music is often dominated by guitarists who prefer to play in
A,E,D,G and C. If a guitarist would accomodate a tuba in E flat by using
a capo on the first fret,this opens up the keys of B flat,F,E flat,A flat etc...
-great keys in which to inprovise.Yip yip yahoo!
The Fartman

One EXCELLENT reason I refuse to play with a group that has any amplified instruments except for a keyboard and banjo. Guitars suck!

[tubatooter1940]

Electric guitars are a fact of life.They can make enough chords and are
so very portable they may never go away.I played an Olds Ambassador
trumpet -unamplified-with a geetar with a hundred watt amp for ten years
Upon booking a small lounge I realized just how loud my playing had
gotten when the waitresses and bartenders cried out in pain and forced me to use a mute for the duration.
Now as a tubist,I need to get up with the guitar player and mike my
tuba into our P.A.with the 15 inch speakers.I now play as loud as the lead
singer and every note I play can be heard.I prefer a boom stand for my
mike so I can rock the to the left and away from it when I blow the spit
out and our audience will be spared the sound of a dolphin gasping.
Your friendly Fartman
P.S. Whan playing a nice room with carpet a small towel in your lap
will show people what a caring person you are.
F.M.

[Dan Schultz]

Electric guitars are a fact of life.

Bleeeech!! Says who?! Guitars suck! Give the guitar player a banjo! If you've gotta mike the tuba, the trumpet is too damned loud!

[Steve Inman]

Electric guitars are a fact of life.

Bleeeech!! Says who?! Guitars suck! Give the guitar player a banjo! If you've gotta mike the tuba, the trumpet is too damned loud!

Hmmm. You're evidently not listening to the right guitars, or the right guitarists. (I won't elaborate, as this is off-topic. Contact me for listening recommendations if you WANT to reconsider your position. Ignore this if you wish to remain blissfully convinced that a banjo sounds better than a guitar!)

Best Regards,