Tipping...

[Joe Baker]

At a restaurant, I figure there's something of an implicit contract to tip 15% for good service. Working from that starting point, I'll tip more or less depending on the quality of the service. For a haircut, I tip a few bucks if the job is done very well, and get the cutter's name so I can request them again. If they've done a poor job, I don't tip.

For other services, it comes down to how much I think the person OUGHT to be paid for what they did, compared to how much I think they are being paid apart from my tip. That involves guesswork, and it's an imperfect science, so I try to err on the side of generosity.

One place where I fear a lot of folks don't tip is at drive-in restaurants like Sonic. I try to tip generously there, and give more on hot, cold or rainy days.
_____________________________
Joe Baker, who agrees with Rick that work for tips should be more common, not less so.

[tubatooter1940]

A good friend of mine never tipped. He wanted to protest the system that made tipping necessary. He stiffed everybody-mostly bartenders and waitresses (food service associates?) He married a waitress and she spent the rest of his life getting even.
Even though we may not agree that tipping should be necessary,the tipee
is realistically expecting a percentage of his or her earnings to come from tips and the system may never change.
I give 20% for meals,bartabs,delivery pizzas and boat rentals etc.... I may go less if the server detracts from my evening.

[ThomasDodd]

Here's another problem with tips.
I see 15% and 20% mentioned. I remeber growing up the "norm" was 10%.
Why the change? The bill has increased, so 10% should be just as good today as it was 20 years ago.

I still have a hard time paying a waitress $10 to bring me and my wife our order, and refill a glass once. (We each get a steak and a drink. My wife like expensive cuts of beef) For 10 minutes of work,? And I have to get her attention to get the refill.

[Leland]

I still have a hard time paying a waitress $10 to bring me and my wife our order, and refill a glass once. (We each get a steak and a drink. My wife like expensive cuts of beef) For 10 minutes of work,? And I have to get her attention to get the refill.

I know what you mean -- that's why I mentioned that I tip according to service and not the bill.

You won't even hear rattling ice at the restaurants with good service, either.

[windshieldbug]

The same motivation you or I have for doing a job well. In most case a job done better than the bare minimum is rewarded in some manner. Bonuses, stock option, promotions, raises

No matter how well I played, I couldn't be promoted any further than principal, and I didn't get bonuses. The best tip I could get was "the maestro wants you to play that D more in tune!". I couldn't get refills, no matter how hard I rattled the violas. My motivation was a part well played and my contribution to the whole, by itself. One can argue if the tips are deserved, but I think the issue at hand is what is the norm? How it evolved and if it should have is another issue altogether...

[bort]

Some friends and I were at a baseball game a few weeks ago, and went to the concession stand to get some beers. There were two guys working behind the counter. One guy poured the beer, and the other guy takes the tip jar, bangs it on the counter and says "hey, we do take tips, you know."

If he wasn't an *** about it, I might have actually given him my change.

[TMurphy]

When you find a gas station that has a self-serve pump and a full-service pump, do you tip the guy pumping the gas? Since the price is often double for full-service, I say no, since I'm paying for that sevice already. Now if the price was the same, I could tip, based on the level of service I got.

Ah, the joys of New Jersey. Nothing but full-service, at the same price (or less) than what you pay for self-serve.

Getting on topic, though, I always tip between 18% and 20% to a waiter/waitress, unless the service was really, really bad. I also do not like the idea of adding a gratuity into the bill...I remember being in a diner with 3 other people, recieving terrible service, and then arguing with the manager over the fact that we were mischarged on the bill....on top of the fact that an 18% gratuity was added in (which we refused to pay....service was THAT bad). That made me very angry.

I do, though, understand why tips are added into the bill with large parties. When a group of 10-12 people come into a restaurant, that becomes work above and beyond the norm for a waiter/waitress. And, for some reason, it is to my experience that whenever I go out to eat with a group of people, there are always those among us who get really cheap on the bill. So it's easy for a waiter/waitress to get screwed out of a tip, because of the complexity of trying to get everyone to pay up. Adding it to the bill in that case guarantees that won't happen.

[Joe Baker]

Cyras, that's about the amount of tea I drank when I used your hot sauce!
___________________________
Joe Baker, who likes hot stuff, but durn...

[Dan Schultz]

When I'm out eating ...... A good server will refill my glass AT LEAST 8 times.

GOOD GOD You must have a 6/4 bladder

[MaryAnn]

Well, you know what bugs ME?
At the *really* expensive restuarants, they don't have waitresses. They have waiters.
MA, who worked graveyards as a dishwasher while in music school

[Kevin Hendrick]

When I'm out eating ...... A good server will refill my glass AT LEAST 8 times.

GOOD GOD You must have a 6/4 bladder

And only one water key ...

[funkcicle]

better be careful not to under-tip:

http://cbs2.com/water/watercooler_story_255090951.html

Man Arrested After Leaving Small Tip

Sep 11, 2004 6:08 am US/Pacific
LAKE GEORGE, N.Y. (AP) A New York City man accused of leaving an inadequate tip at a restaurant was arrested, fingerprinted and photographed for a mug shot.

Humberto A. Taveras, 41, faces a misdemeanor charge of theft of services after he and his fellow diners argued with Soprano's Italian and American Grill managers over the legality of requiring an 18 percent tip for large parties.

"They chased us down like a bunch of criminals," Taveras said. "It killed our weekend."

Taveras and eight others had pizza at the restaurant Sunday night. He told the Glens Falls Post-Star they weren't completely satisfied with the food and left a tip of under 10 percent. Taveras said they also were not told of a mandatory 18 percent gratuity for parties of six or more and did not see notice of it on their menus.

Restaurant owner Joe Soprano said all the menus have the notice, and the waitress informed the group. He said he did not choose to pursue charges because of the money, but because Taveras' group was obnoxious.

"It's unfortunate it has come to this, but this guy was rude and abrasive. They practically threw food at us," Soprano said.

Taveras plans to fight the charge. He was issued an appearance ticket and was scheduled to appear in town court Thursday.

The arrest raises the issue of whether the gratuities that restaurants automatically tack on for serving large groups are legally enforceable debts.

Warren County Sheriff Larry Cleveland said he did not believe the issue had been litigated before in New York. He said the case could turn on whether the person is notified of the tip requirement beforehand.

"It's not a black-and-white issue," Cleveland said. "It will be very interesting to see where it goes in court."

[funkcicle]

better be careful not to under-tip:

http://cbs2.com/water/watercooler_story_255090951.html

Man Arrested After Leaving Small Tip

Sep 11, 2004 6:08 am US/Pacific
LAKE GEORGE, N.Y. (AP) A New York City man accused of leaving an inadequate tip at a restaurant was arrested, fingerprinted and photographed for a mug shot.

Humberto A. Taveras, 41, faces a misdemeanor charge of theft of services after he and his fellow diners argued with Soprano's Italian and American Grill managers over the legality of requiring an 18 percent tip for large parties.

"They chased us down like a bunch of criminals," Taveras said. "It killed our weekend."

Taveras and eight others had pizza at the restaurant Sunday night. He told the Glens Falls Post-Star they weren't completely satisfied with the food and left a tip of under 10 percent. Taveras said they also were not told of a mandatory 18 percent gratuity for parties of six or more and did not see notice of it on their menus.

Restaurant owner Joe Soprano said all the menus have the notice, and the waitress informed the group. He said he did not choose to pursue charges because of the money, but because Taveras' group was obnoxious.

"It's unfortunate it has come to this, but this guy was rude and abrasive. They practically threw food at us," Soprano said.

Taveras plans to fight the charge. He was issued an appearance ticket and was scheduled to appear in town court Thursday.

The arrest raises the issue of whether the gratuities that restaurants automatically tack on for serving large groups are legally enforceable debts.

Warren County Sheriff Larry Cleveland said he did not believe the issue had been litigated before in New York. He said the case could turn on whether the person is notified of the tip requirement beforehand.

"It's not a black-and-white issue," Cleveland said. "It will be very interesting to see where it goes in court."

I believe the charges were later dropped.

[bort]

It is NY, NY.

Actually Lake George is pretty far upstate (and I'll never forget getting stuck in the middle of a 50,000 motorcyclist convention there on the way to Montreal).

Anyway, guess the guy's just lucky it wasn't Tony Soprano.

[Mitch]

I've been in the position of server, and provided excellent service, which I measure by a WEEKLY tip AVERAGE of 30%. My customers rarely had to ask me for anything other than their initial order, and regular customers rarely had to ask me for that.
But there were ALWAYS jerks who had no concept of tipping. And restaurants SHOULD have mandatory tip amounts for large parties, because of those jerks. I think it's easier to skunk out in a group than if it's 2, 3 or 4. There were a couple times I absolutely KILLED myself to provide the same quality of service to parties of ten, even 20, only to be tipped so pathetically. When a server is handling a large group, if they're sensible, they're not taking any other tables. In other words, when they get a bad tip, they've spent all that time on one group, have only them as a source of income for that hour, hour and a half, and if they get stiffed, it's like the whole shift is lost. I've had members of parties sneak back to me and give me more money because they were embarassed by the jackass who paid and left a lousy tip.
I'm the first person to shrink the tip if the service stinks, but I'll also communicate my dissatisfaction BEFORE the meal is over, to offer the opportunity to rectify the situation. I'll speak to the manager before I leave if the service remained poor.
But...some people are just dumb. One of the only times I got stiffed on a tip, a patron had ordered something that had "barbeque chicken" in the title, printed on the menu, and she ordered it BY NAME. I delivered her food, checked back soon thereafter, and she said everything was fine. But she continued to just pick at it, scraping things off, etc. I checked back again, asking if everything was alright. She said, "I don't like it; it's not right." I asked if she felt it wasn't cooked enough, or did it need more of something...? (Remember the title, the "barbeque chicken" part...) She said, "No, I just don't like it. It's, like, all barbecue sauce and chicken." While I refrained from saying, "Are you f'ing kidding me?!?! It said BARBECUE CHICKEN on the menu, and you ordered it, saying, 'Let me have that barbecue chicken thing'!!!!," I politely said, "I'm terribly sorry. May I get you something else in its place?" But she just continued to bitch and moan, and left me nothing for a tip. Like her raving stupidity was my fault. And it wasn't like she ate the whole thing, then complained (which happens every day in restaurants across the country by cheap people trying to get away with paying nothing for a meal, and facilitated by spineless managers [not much lower on the food chain than chain-smokin' lifer restaurant managers]), she hardly ate a thing, seemingly completely unable to make the connection between the title of the entree and the components in the entree.
The biggest argument for servers receiving tips is that they have to put up with some of the highest degree of rudeness, incivility, and downright stupidity sometimes, and still do it with a smile.

[ThomasDodd]

Not enough info to decide who was at fault.

A prime example of why a per-person surcharge would be better.
Calling it a tip, or gratuity and basing it on the order total leave this question.
If it was a per-person, fixed surcharge there'd be no question of legality.

The amount would be set by the location, and easily posted. This would also stop large parties with small orders getting of cheap. Imagine 10 people getting drinks and appetizers, then sitting there for 2-3 hours chatting and enjoying free refills. Even 20% isn't going to cover the extra service.

As to the guy not noticing it on the menu. Ignorance is no excuse. If he didn't see the no-smoking sign on the door, would that allow him to smoke there? How could anyone over 25 not expect a automantic gratuity for large parties? I've seldom seen a menu without that notice.

[funkcicle]

(sorry for the double-post!)

Lake George is like upstate NY's min Las Vegas.. absolutely disgusting town/capitalism lived out to it's full potential

LOVED it when i was 10 years old though!

[TubaRay]

Does it have any titty bars? Topless womn are always a positive thing.

Doc

Well, at least to most guys and some women.

[funkcicle]

Does it have any titty bars? Topless womn are always a positive thing.

Doc

Upstairs from every gift store and temporary-tattoo shop!

[NeilMacQuarrie]

.