Bour-...blub-blub...-bon Street

[Shockwave]

I'm not the biggest fan of GWB, but some people need to getting a friggin' grip already. If all these people were made to be accountable (no welfare-actually had to contribute and be a real person), they might have enough wherewithall to leave when told. Maybe they would help out, instead of raping, killing, and looting. Maybe they wouldn't complain and this country when the govt's tit is no longer securely shoved down their pathetic throats. Oh Lordy! Help us! We can't help ourselves. Thanks, Welfare.

Doc

You think these people deserve to die because you assume they are beneficiaries of a government system that you don't like? That's really sick. If you think these people are inherently too lazy to save themselves, then they would have died with or without the welfare system you say is the true cause of this disaster. If you think the government welfare system has caused these people to become so lazy that they can't save themselves, then you can only blame the current leaders of government for not having done anything about it.

-Eric

[bort]

What I can't understand is the people who *still* won't leave the city - for reasons like they fear they will have nothing when they leave, or they have no idea where they'll go and what they'll do. I can't imagine a single thing in NO that is worth staying for.

However (bad as it sounds) I'm glad the rescuers have enough sense to not waste their time and move on to find people who DO want to be (and are waiting to be) rescued.

[Rick Denney]

An example is the tax-funded sports stadium. There are those who see these as essential, and others who think they are actively bad.

What do you think of the taking of privately held land via eminent domain to build a baseball park?

I support property rights. Eminent domain is necessary for improvements to basic infrastructure, but only for that. Sports stadiums are not basic infrastructure. Roads are. Drainage facilities are. Military emplacements (rare in this country) are. I'll even risk Bloke's wrath and include national parks, when it is reasonable to do so (which is usually isn't). Taking land for roads in monstrously difficult--far more difficult than for things like stadiums, because they do not attract the favorable attention of big-money people.

Rick "just starting to see the local officials beginning to attract their share of the blame for last weeks disaster" Denney

[Shockwave]

Doc and Bloke,

Oh, so now you blame GWB instead of trying to exonerate him like in the first post I responded to. I don't like moving targets. If someone comes along and embraces and expands a program with a 40 year history, such as welfare, they are taking full political responsibility for that program and its cumulative effects. There is absolutely nothing you can do to change the past, but you can change the future.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/cda05-05.cfm

The argument that people stayed in NOLA because of what welfare did to them is nothing but an unprovable theory. You have no way of knowing how things would have been different, much less better, if welfare didn't exist. From interviews it sure sounds like people stayed due to ignorance, sentimentality, lack of money, a low rate of car ownership, fear of losing posessions to robbers, and lack of a decent city evacuation plan to take these things into account. The notion that welfare-induced beliefs were the major reasons people stayed can only be a pre-conceived idea.

It's sad that both of you have to resort to attacking me instead of my argument, and hypocritically accuse me of using a disaster to further a political agenda.

-Eric

[ThomasDodd]

Doc and Bloke,
Oh, so now you blame GWB instead of trying to exonerate him like in the first post I responded to.

I promise you misread/misunderstood if you though Doc, Bloke, or myself were exonerating Bush. His is neither faultless(given the current public mentality) nor soley at fault.

The argument that people stayed in NOLA because of what welfare did to them is nothing but an unprovable theory.

The vast majority of those that stayed did so under the notion that the government would/should take care of them, as a result of 40+ years of the government attempting to do so and succeeding in convincng many that it could or should.

The real point was that those doing the looting are the result of 40+ years of the government giving somepeople other people's money. They are use to being given other people's stuff, and continue to think it's OK to take other's stuff.

Instead of working to gether they turned into lawless mobs doing as the please with no reguard for anyone's property. To a large degree that's because of t6he welfare state.

It's sad that both of you have to resort to attacking me instead of my argument, and hypocritically accuse me of using a disaster to further a political agenda.

I missed the attack on your person. I did see you attack Doc

You think these people deserve to die because

[tubatooter1940]

We've been thrugh a lot of these storms. They're all different. Hurricane Fredrick blew all the water out of Mobile Bay and Katrina brought more water in than any of us have seen in a lifetime. How do you prepare for that? New Orleans used to get most of the storms but recently the Eastern
Gulf Coast and Florida have been the beneficiaries. Camile Hit Mississippi with 200 mph. winds but was a much smaller storm than Katrina.
The first several days after the storm,things happen slowly but then the resources start to make it in and we can find water,ice and MRE"s. Camping out in a hot house is miserable if you're not prepared but after all these years and increasing frequency of storms we finally popped for a portable generator that will run a lamp,a referigerator and a fan.
The politicians for the city of New Orleans and the state of Lousiana seem inept and colorless but there is this administrator of Jefferson Parish named Aaron Broussard who is really lighting them up down there. This guy is funny and the reality that all you can do is laugh or cry after a storm makes this guy all the more refreshing. Harry,the tuba player on C.B.S. morning show tried to get him to bust on the president and he did this baseball bit that went on for longer than Harry cared to be seen laughing.
If New Orleans as a city has character,it will build back. If not,all is lost.

[Daryl Fletcher]

[Daryl Fletcher]

[dunelandmusic]

As astounding as it seems, the mayor is now giving free trips to Vegas to his officers, while battle hardened soldiers from Iraq are expected to do the police work. WHERE IS OUR SANITY?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/natio ... nted=print

[Kevin Hendrick]

... WHERE IS OUR SANITY?

"At the North Pole", I'd guess, and it ain't December yet ...

[Daryl Fletcher]

[Doug@GT]

As astounding as it seems, the mayor is now giving free trips to Vegas to his officers, while battle hardened soldiers from Iraq are expected to do the police work. WHERE IS OUR SANITY?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/natio ... nted=print

Perhaps the early 18th century thinkers
were correct in saying that workers
should remain poor so they do their job
without demanding more pay and
benefits.

Doug "tongue in cheek, but jeez"

[Joe Baker]

As astounding as it seems, the mayor is now giving free trips to Vegas to his officers, while battle hardened soldiers from Iraq are expected to do the police work. WHERE IS OUR SANITY?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/natio ... nted=print

Even more astounding:
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/07/D8CFICE80.html
I just wish I owned a liquor store within walking distance of the Astrodome
____________________________________
Joe Baker, who never had the government bail HIS butt out in times of trouble, let alone give him money for cigareets & whiskey.

[ThomasDodd]

Even more astounding:
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/07/D8CFICE80.html

Particurally this bit at the end

Not everyone will qualify for a debit card...

"For instance you may have some people who have insurance and insurance is meeting their living expenses while they have been displaced."

In other word, if you properly prepared for such a situation by buying insurance, F*** you. If you were lazy, or stupid and didn't think in advance, will give $2000 taken for people who have the sh** straight. Now go blow this money and come back next week begging for more. By then we'll have figured out how to give you more of their money.

Why not at least make them work for the money. Maybe building temporary housing somwhere?

And guess who's going to build and pay for their new houses when N.O. is rebuilt. But they don't have to lift a finger.

[Daryl Fletcher]

[cjk]

Sound familiar?

http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/ ... index.html

[Doug@GT]

Sound familiar?

http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/ ... index.html

One of my professors e-mailed that out yesterday. Very interesting stuff. Tells me that we really shouldn't be calling the evacuees "victims." After reports like this, calling them "victims" is like calling a suicide a "victim".

Heck, I may jump in front of a train. I guess I'd be a "victim."

Complaining about a flood in New Orleans is like complaining about mosquitoes in the mountains. Or earthquakes in California. The lesson here is that Nature wins every time people refuse to heed warnings. And yes, I think 4 years is ample time for everyone to evacuate.

Doug "tongue slightly less in cheek this time"

[tubaman5150]

From the National Geographic article:

Some 200,000 remained, however—the car-less, the homeless, the aged and infirm

I would call these "victims". The others that include the looters, the insane and the simply stubborn, I would not.

[Mark]

Along with all of the widespread death, suffering, and devastation, we may also be witnessing the last whimperings of the most politically corrupt and crime-ridden city in the nation...

Washington, D.C.?

[Mark]

I said national leadership was lacking and I believe most Americans share that sentiment.

Only 13% of Americans blame Bush: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/07/katrin ... index.html. (Mostly contributors to MoveOn.org?)