Bour-...blub-blub...-bon Street

[Shockwave]

Maybe that's because the City of New Orleans had a disaster plan in place and the resources to effect it, while the rural towns and parishes to the north did not. Only after the storm did people realize that New Orleans officials didn't have a good plan and didn't have the leadership skills to even attempt what they had.

The federal government is not a first responder--it is a backup to help the first responders when they need it. First, they have to ask for it. It took Governor Blanco at least two extra days to request federal control of the disaster response, which is legally required before the federal government can step in and assume control. Why did it take so long? Maybe because she did not want to give up the power?

None of the states requested federal control of the disaster response, they requested a declaration of emergency and federal assistance. When assistance is granted, a coordinator is appointed by the president to facilitate working with the state to formulate plans and distribute resources. If they need US military resources, authority must be granted by the president.

It's still a little bizarre, based on the press releases, how the federal aid that was made available before the storm was only to the parts of Louisiana farthest from the storm, while assistance was made available to the parts of Mississippi and Alabama closest to the storm.

Here are two letters from Gov. Blanco to president Bush requesting federal assistance:

http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Releas ... asp?id=976

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Rel ... equest.pdf

The press release is dated 8-27 and states that Blanco requested a federal emergency be declared from 8-26 and continuing. On 8-27 the white house also issued a press release stating that a federal emergency was declared in Louisiana from 8-26 and continuing. Then there is this curious pdf file from the lousiana state website saying that on 8-28, Blanco submitted a much longer and more detailed letter requesting a federal emergency be declared in louisiana from 8-28 and continuing. If the president issued such a declaration on or before the 27th, this letter dated the 28th makes no sense at all. I think the "2 day delay" you are referring to is the difference between the 8-26 starting date of the federal declaration and the 8-28 request. The 8/28 letter specifically asks for assistance in the parishes excluded from the 8/26 presidential declaration, and maybe that is its purpose.

Mississippi requested and received aid much more quickly, but then Barbour was a little quicker to ask for it.

Mississippi and Alabama were granted emergency assistance 1 and 2 days(respectively) after it was granted to Louisiana. All three states were later granted disaster assistance on the 29th, and all three received troops on the same day.

-Eric

[ThomasDodd]

The best, most complete, timeline I've seen to date is from FactCheck.org
http://www.factcheck.org/article348.html

It's a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania.
They managed to be apolitical during the 2004 election cycle, pointing out problems of inaccuracies and misleading statements for both sides.

[Rick Denney]

The best, most complete, timeline I've seen to date is from FactCheck.org
http://www.factcheck.org/article348.html

It's a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania.
They managed to be apolitical during the 2004 election cycle, pointing out problems of inaccuracies and misleading statements for both sides.

There are some steps it does not report, that were probably not reported in the media. One important fact is that governors control national guard troops in their states, and the entire Lousiana Guard could have been deployed at Blanco's will without permission from Washington. I wonder when Blanco did so.

Before other states can send help, it must be requested from one governor to the other. State agency people in Georgia, for example, offered to send crews to help restore traffic signal operation in affected areas, but was told they could do so only if requested by the governors in the affected states, and that there had been no such requests. There had been requests made for search and rescue, but not for infrastructure issues.

The timeline you linked still does not explain why the available school buses in New Orleans were not used. Rumors are flying about that one, but the people I have talked to seem sure Nagin knew the buses were available. The timeline does, however, show that Nagin did not declare a mandatory evacuation until about 24 hours too late to make such an evacuation possible, according to his own emergency plan. But the emergency plan in New Orleans did not address how to remove people who were not able or prepared to respond to a mandatory evacuation.

It appears to me that the federal government did provide its usual response in this case, declaring a state of emergency as soon as it was requested by the governors, and making FEMA people available to coordinate federal response efforts.

It is also apparent that the state and local officials were as slow, considering their proximity to facts on the ground, to realize the full effect of the storm (and the full reaction--or lack therof--of the people in the city). The refusal to allow the Red Cross to enter the city was based on Nagin's belief that they should be evacuated immediately rather than provisioned in place, and his fear that provisioning evacuees in place to prevent their further evacuation. That decision alone accounts for the vast portion of the anger and frustration of the people in those shelters, but it does not excuse their animal behavior. It also accounts for the failure of the hospitals still operating in the city. The people were prevented from leaving the shelters, and I still find that disturbing.

If the feds had mobilized active-duty troops (remember that the governors can mobilize their own guard troops) immediately, which still would have taken several days to effect, and used them for restoring order by force before the problems of lawlessness surfaced, it would have been seen as an over-reaction. They didn't have to mobilize in that fashion after Andrew, or when Allison flooded a full third of Houston (which is a much bigger city than New Orleans), though Allison's flooding wasn't as deep and wasn't accompanied by high winds. It was the behavior of the people in New Orleans that made this necessary, and that didn't become apparent for a couple of days.

I will check on the two-day delay issue. I heard that from Alabama state staffers, and I'll be seeing them again in a few weeks.

Rick "who thinks most politicians are either deflecting blame or playing politics with this issue" Denney

[Tubaryan12]

Bloke said,

Of course, we could all make the (very 'racist' - as that term seems to have been tossed about quite a bit this week) assumption that those able-bodied who stayed (and died) simply didn't have the cognitive or motivational resources to 'git'..."

Agreed

On another note; I am a homeowner and I have never understood the logic of "staying behind to protect my property". That's what insurance is for. I have been called cold and heartless for this oppinion but there is not one single thing in my house (including pictures, kids artwork, pets, etc.) that I would even risk injury for. The only thing I would need is the family and the phone number to the national offices of State Farm.

[Rick Denney]

The best, most complete, timeline I've seen to date is from FactCheck.org
http://www.factcheck.org/article348.html

I've been sent a link to a local newspaper in the New Orleans area that is obviously run by an editorial board not interested in protecting the reputation of local politicians. Here it is:

http://www.northsidejournal.com/special2.htm

This article details the length of the delay from when Blanco was asked to make the request and when she actually did. The timline you linked reported what she said to the press, not what she officially did.

Again, I credit Bush for avoiding the blame game. The local politicians in Louisiana have certainly given him material to use, but he has taken the high road, taking responsibility for federal fumbles and focusing on getting it done rather than blaming those who obviously did not get it done.

Growing up close to Louisiana, I know personally that the corruption in that state is every bit as bad as is suggested by the article. It's known in the engineering business that there are certain local "development" activities that must take place before getting work in southern Louisiana. It's one reason I never did any work there, even though I lived relatively nearby.

After Tropical Storm Allison flooded about a third of Houston, the city hired local disadvantaged businesses to help haul away debris and assist with the cleanup. Much of the money they paid to those contractors was never used to clean anything. Houston is a relatively clean city in terms of corruption, though it has its problems. I predict New Orleans will be much worse.

Rick "noting that Annenberg only quoted national media" Denney

[ThomasDodd]

The best, most complete, timeline I've seen to date is from FactCheck.org
http://www.factcheck.org/article348.html

http://www.northsidejournal.com/special2.htm

Rick "noting that Annenberg only quoted national media" Denney

I'll read the North Side Journal articles tonight.

But Not so sure about Annenberg and "national" medial.
St. Petersburg Times,New Orleans Times-Picayune, and Houston Chronicle aren't typically though of as National are they? Iv'e read a few St. Pete's articles before, and know the Chronicle from when I lived in Houston. But I'd never heard of N.O. Time before Katrina.

[Rick Denney]

But Not so sure about Annenberg and "national" medial.
St. Petersburg Times,New Orleans Times-Picayune, and Houston Chronicle aren't typically though of as National are they? Iv'e read a few St. Pete's articles before, and know the Chronicle from when I lived in Houston. But I'd never heard of N.O. Time before Katrina.

The Times-Picayune is the standard, big New Orleans newspaper, and like the Chronicle, gets most of its stories off the wire and to some extent coddles the local power structure (though it was the T-P that published the scathing review of the hurrican drill from a year or two back). They have been printing at the press of the Houma newspaper since the storm.

Those are the papers somebody from Pennsylvania would think of and know to read concerning issues in that area. The article I linked was sent to me by someone who knows the local scene.

By the way, next week is when I'm in Jackson, if you and Wade are around--maybe we can get together.

Rick "who figures the Northside Journal has a slant, too, but at least quoted checkable facts" Denney

[ThomasDodd]

Those are the papers somebody from Pennsylvania would think of and know to read concerning issues in that area. The article I linked was sent to me by someone who knows the local scene.

OK. I just had never heard of them until recently, unlike NY Time, Washington Time, Washington Post, or Wall Street Journal, and U.S.A. Today.

Those are what I consider "national" media, along with a few left coast rags.

By the way, next week is when I'm in Jackson, if you and Wade are around--maybe we can get together.

Need to get Wade in on the planning. His schedule is much tighter than mine
I can usually jump in the car and make the drive. It's only 2 hours, depending on where in Jackson I need to go.

[ThomasDodd]

<img src="http://www.wunderground.com/data/640x48 ... r_anim.gif">

I just noticed this was still updating. It now shows Rita, heading for the Gulf, a hurricane as of 9:15 EDT today.

Anyone notice Jova? 115MPH winds nearing Hawaii ?
If it was in the Atlantic the same distance for the coast we'd be hearing about it.
I guess Hawaii isn't on the national media radar.

[bort]

Y'all heard this one yet?

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/14/201055.shtml


Louis Farrakhan: Levees Were 'Blown Up'

Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan is telling his followers that the levees in New Orleans may have been deliberately "blown up" to kill the city's black population.

The influential preacher was in Charlotte, North Carolina, on Monday, where he detailed his Hurricane Katrina conspiracy theory.

"I heard from a very reliable source who saw a 25 foot deep crater under the levee breach," Farrakhan explained. "It may have been blown up to destroy the black part of town and keep the white part dry."

Farrakhan didn't say who he thought was behind the plot to blow up New Orleans' levees.

The Muslim minister also blasted both FEMA and the Red Cross, saying their response to Katrina victims after the levees were blown up was inadequate.

[Joe Baker]

Y'all heard this one yet?
Louis Farrakhan: Levees Were 'Blown Up'

1/ Farrakhan is looney.
2/ The neighborhoods that suffered the worst damage were predominately white.
3/ Farrakhan is looney.
4/ How is someone going to be able to manage to "plant charges and blow up a levee" right in the middle of a hurricane?
5/ So, who did this? The Re-pubics who "hate Negroes", or the Demo-litions, who would be trying to make the Re-pubics look bad?
5/ Farrakhan is looney.
6/ Farrakhan is looney.
7/ Anyone who takes any stock whatsoever in anything Farrakhan says or does is looney.
8/ Putting bullsh*t like this in b*ttwipe newspapers (etc.) does successfully draw some attention away from stories such as those about Able Danger discrediting nearly the entire 9/11 Commission report (etc.).

9/ How in the H-E-Double-Hockey-Stix you going to SEE a crater when there's water over the ground on both sides of the levy?
10/ If they're talking about after the water's pumped out -- wouldn't the rush of water over the levy erode away a LOT of the ground there?
11/ Farrakhan is a HATEFUL BIGOTED looney.
______________________________
Joe Baker, who has no use for people whose power is derived from hatred.

[Tubaryan12]

1/ Farrakhan is looney.

You could have stopped the list there and said all that needed to be said about this crazy old man (who is getting crazier by the day).

[Brassdad]

Any one notice that the horror reports out of the Superdome and Convention Center seems to have been all hype?

[Rick Denney]

Any one notice that the horror reports out of the Superdome and Convention Center seems to have been all hype?

Do you have something authoritative that questions what we saw? I for one would be interested.

It does seem quite clear to me that the New Orleans situation was magnified much greater than similar disasters (Andrew comes to mind). Even Mississippi, which suffered more brutally than did New Orleans (from the storm, at least) has had to take a publicity back seat.

Allison was a lowly tropical storm, but it flooded Houston quite nearly as profoundly as New Orleans was flooded by Katrina, though the flooding drained in a few days (unlike Katrina's flood). It was well reported in the media for a few days, but it has had nothing like the media impact of Katrina. I think it had faded from the news altogether by the time of the September 11 attacks.

Rick "who saw a lot less whining from Houston officials then and now" Denney

[Brassdad]

Speaking of the "murders" that apparently didn't happen at the Superdome, and the mass raping that may have been over reported

[Joe Baker]

"All hype" isn't quite accurate either, but apparently a lot of the things we were told about murders and rapes being committed in the convention center and the Superdome were just not true.

For more: http://tinyurl.com/73zwq

A taste:

After five days managing near-riots, medical horrors and unspeakable living conditions inside the Superdome, Louisiana National Guard Col. Thomas Beron prepared to hand over the dead to representatives of the Federal Emergency Management Agency.


Following days of internationally reported killings, rapes and gang violence inside the Dome, the doctor from FEMA - Beron doesn't remember his name - came prepared for a grisly scene: He brought a refrigerated 18-wheeler and three doctors to process bodies.

"I've got a report of 200 bodies in the Dome," Beron recalls the doctor saying.

The real total was six, Beron said.

Of those, four died of natural causes, one overdosed and another jumped to his death in an apparent suicide, said Beron, who personally oversaw the turning over of bodies from a Dome freezer, where they lay atop melting bags of ice. State health department officials in charge of body recovery put the official death count at the Dome at 10, but Beron said the other four bodies were found in the street near the Dome, not inside it. Both sources said no one had been killed inside.

All hype? No. But nowhere near the attrocities that were reported to be taking place.
_________________________
Joe Baker, who wonders if this good news will get much national media play.

[UDELBR]

Any one notice that the horror reports out of the Superdome and Convention Center seems to have been all hype?

Do you have something authoritative that questions what we saw? I for one would be interested.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n ... yth26.html

According to Orleans Parish District Attorney Eddie Jordan, "authorities have only confirmed four murders in the entire city in the aftermath of Katrina — making it a typical week in a city that anticipated more than 200 homicides this year."

Officials now say there were only six deaths inside the Superdome. Of those, "four died of natural causes, one overdosed and another jumped to his death in an apparent suicide." No murders.

At the Convention Center, four bodies have been recovered. Only one of the four deaths appears to have resulted from murder.

An earlier report said that none of the reported rapes in the Superdome and the Convention Center have been substantiated.

[ThomasDodd]

Allison was a lowly tropical storm, but it flooded Houston quite nearly as profoundly as New Orleans was flooded by Katrina, though the flooding drained in a few days (unlike Katrina's flood). It was well reported in the media for a few days, but it has had nothing like the media impact of Katrina. I think it had faded from the news altogether by the time of the September 11 attacks.

I don't remember the cause, but I remember I-10 and I 45 being under water in '92 whicle I was there. I think it happend March. I on't remeber any evacuation and few people seamed to care. I lived inside the 610 loop, and still had to go too work the whole time. At teh tim that was security work, as a fill in, so I was all over downtown.

[ThomasDodd]

Joe Baker, who wonders if this good news will get much national media play.

I'd wager none of the broadcast TV/cable programs the reported the murders or rapes will mention that they were wrong. The most that might happen is a 10 secon blurb, once, never to mentioned again, even though they repeated the claims 100's of times. Most won't even bother with the "correction".

[Rick Denney]

I don't remember the cause, but I remember I-10 and I 45 being under water in '92 whicle I was there. I think it happend March. I on't remeber any evacuation and few people seamed to care. I lived inside the 610 loop, and still had to go too work the whole time. At teh tim that was security work, as a fill in, so I was all over downtown.

The terrain of Houston is best described as a billiard table with a matchbook under one leg. It has an average slope of 0.02%. Thus, any hard rain will cause flooding.

But being flat also means that it doesn't concentrate runoff like hilly areas. Thus, where 10 inches of rain would mean raging walls of water in the creeks and rivers around here (and that would all end up causing the Potomac to spill over into Alexandria--again), 10 inches of rain makes 20 inches of water in the street and none in the houses. Some parts of town flood more easily because the drainage system brings water in quicker than it can leave, which is the source of the storied sewers backing up phenomenon. So, Houston can take lots of rain with minimal damage. The street on which I grew up floods deep enough to prevent cars driving down it several times every year. Spring is a popular time for floods in Texas, because late cold fronts clash with tropical air, often from the Pacific rather than the Gulf, and all the water falls out of the air. The Memorial Day flood in Austin (in the late 70's) is an example.

But Allison was quite different from the typical Spring downpour. Many tens of thousands of houses had water in them, along with the Medical Center, most freeways, and so on. The power was out, the water foul, and the mud it left behind even fouler. You didn't want to buy a used car in the area for a couple of years after that, heh, heh. Houston took 20-35 inches of rain in that storm, depending on where in town you added it up. It still ranks in the top handful of the most expensive cyclonic storms in history, even though it never reached hurricane status. Water is more dangerous than wind.

Rick "who remembers the futility of sweeping water off the front porch with a broom" Denney