Sound of America Honor Band

[Joe Baker]

Chris, if it makes you feel any better, let an old coot fill you in on something: everytime something supposedly features "...with the West Ladeeda Symphony Orchestra", it doesn't really mean that the real members of the orchestra will all be there. Even in li'l ol' Knoxville Tennessee, half the events I've been to that were supposedly some choir accompanied by the KSO actually had 90% of the orchestra replaced by subs. I'd bet my bottom dollar that's exactly what will happen with the LSO. No offense to your band, but if the worlds best HS band showed up at their doors, why in the heck would a world-class Symphony Orchestra play with them? My bet: sub city, and less than first call.
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Joe Baker, who's been kind of cynical today, but as far as he knows hasn't been wrong yet!

[Joe Baker]

On a lesser scale, look at the "Disney Magic Music Days" trips that countless schools participate in.
...
Parents know how bad a kid feels being left behind so they cough up the money.

Not even George Washington was ever SO right on the money! And what of the kid whose parents just no stinkin' way CAN cough it up? One year my daughters were both in the same choir. This choir took a trip that cost $800 per student. I couldn't have paid a tenth of that, so my girls didn't go. But it gets worse -- the director made it clear that any student who wasn't making the trip wouldn't be considered for solos, since their concert music and their trip music was the same! In effect, this group had made their choice: they were a travel club that also sang. I've never been any more angry on behalf of my children.

We've been all through this trip crap before; the directors are worried that the kids won't want to be in the band, or won't work as hard, if there's not a trip to reward them with. Although it puts me at odds with some directors who I really very much admire, I just don't buy it. My son's band has had one overnight trip in two years (after a late contest they stayed in a hotel one night before making the 2-hour bus trip home -- ridiculous, but at least they only charged each student $20), and the band has grown steadily in both size and quality. Give the students music they can understand, and help them to grow in their understanding so they can do more challenging music. Give them goals to shoot for, and recognize them when they achieve. The best kids will beat down the doors to be in band.
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Joe Baker, who thinks schools should have "travel clubs" so the kids who just want to travel won't get in the way of good music programs.

[Leland]

On a lesser scale, look at the "Disney Magic Music Days" trips that countless schools participate in.

I was going to mention the same thing. Disney particularly offends me in that they ditched the Disneyland Band so that they could make money by having school kids pay to play at the park.

I've performed in so many venues that they start to blend together. The view from the audience is markedly different from one place to another, true, but on the performers' side, they really are awfully similar -- whether you're in Ohio or Oslo. Lots of hustling around, loading & unloading, changing clothes, being buried in the bowels of whatever arena or concert hall that you're in that night. Even the hotels start feeling the same (except for a surprisingly cheaply-decorated Super 8 in Kansas City).

Back in my HS and college days, I paid less money each summer to perform more often over a greater land mass for more appreciative audiences than this Sound Of America trip. Come to think of it, I probably paid for my six summers for the same cost as one Eurotrip.

What am I rambling about??

When it gets down to it, I feel that performances have very little to do with the venue, and a LOT to do with the audience and the quality of the performance itself. Overseas trips make for thicker photo albums, but that's about it.

[MikeMason]

yeah, if everyone can't afford to have fun, no one should. and yeah, i hate disney for trying to be profittable,how dare a business do that...just thought the other side of these arguments should be pointed out...

[TexTuba]

I'm really, really, really, really, really sorry for expressing a preference for Tahiti over Europe. Can you ever forgive me?

Consider it forgiven and forgotten. As far as fundraisers go, it's all a joke. For the right amount of money ANY band becomes a GREAT band to salesmen. Not to knock your group but that's all it is to them: MONEY. It's the same thing as bands being invited to play at bowl game parades(Rose, Cotton, etc.) If you've got the money they'll let you.


Ralph

[Joe Baker]

yeah, if everyone can't afford to have fun, no one should. and yeah, i hate disney for trying to be profittable,how dare a business do that...just thought the other side of these arguments should be pointed out...

Mike, I'm the last guy to say no one should get to do more if they've earned more dough. It doesn't bother me in the least that some kids can afford to go places my kids can't. The problem is when participation in a public school music program is limited because a kid's parents can't afford a trip. The two aren't rightly related.

As for Disney, they didn't invent the vanity press; they merely extended it to music performance. Who actually sits and listens to these bands, anyway? I've never been to Disneyworld, but I can't imagine paying the kind of jack it takes to get into that place and then spending my time listening to some High School band play "Asleep". Is there really an audience for these things, other than band parents?
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Joe Baker, who has never been accused of opposing the right to earn a profit, but thinks doing so by exploiting the naivite of children is pretty low.

[Matt G]

I've seen Disney from both sides.

When in middle school, we played there (it was a day trip Tampa to Orlando).

Joe Baker is right in his assumption. No one (not even the band parents) sticks around to listen to these bands when they play the sit-down gig. If a band is marching around the park, they get attention because the other "guests" of the park can't move anywhere from around 3:00 - 3:30 pm every day.

Now, I used to go into the parks while I was working there as a student musician or just get in because we got tons of free passes from the local university marching band getting lots of time there. The Walt Disney World Band (World Band for short) kicked major ***. They could swing hard when they wanted and play Grainger well on the next tune. Some excellent tuba players used to play in those bands. All of the other players were quite excellent and pedigreed as well. Problem is, very few people would hang around to listen to them either.

Problem, the kids who come to the parks would hardly ever be exposed to these bands. The DMMD coordinators were also musicians who would "work" with the band and sometimes they would bring in a local educator for a "clinic". They would have been better served having the kids sit down and listen to the World Band. But no, they didn't.

Those kids never even got exposure to the college bands when in season. Disney normally just shuffled them through to do the 3 o'clock parade. In fact, Disney has figure out how to really manipulate these poor kids. Only local bands really benefit, because they can jump in and out just for the parade and the kids can use the tickets received at their own discretion.

The kids who don't live local I liken to bloke's comment about Europe. There are plenty of kids whose parents have never been to the Tragic Kingdom and they don't have the cash. I've seen plenty of kids from areas around the country who traveled a good distance to play 3 tunes and they look pretty star-struck when they see some fiberglass buildings and trees. I bet a good number of those parents feel that this is an acceptable expenditure because it is an educational experience.

Now, as a band student who went on a trip every year, I can tell you this. Every student in the band went on the trip. Either through personal fundraising or "scholarships" (the band director would simply give the money to those who didn't have the means) every kid was able to go. This took two things: a large booster budget and reasonable trips.

I don't see a ton of merit in trips, but the students enjoy them. A good director will find an appropriate venue that rewards students the best. A local director up here took his HS band to do a performance in Vienna. I think that the out of pocket for each student was about $300. They at least played to a packed house at some intenational competition.

I think that Disney continues this deal because of the "package" deal. They are a far better marketing organization than the average band festival.

Just think how much money those bands could put toward other things if a trip wasn't in the way...

[windshieldbug]

Lessee... 4k for a tuba vrs 4k for a trip... I know what I chose... do I regret it, not on your life!

[windshieldbug]

Doc, it's worth ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY to get you the hell out of this country, even for a day!!

[Daryl Fletcher]

[tubatooter1940]

1960, my senior year, I made first chair,red band and was #1 tuba in the state at Tuscaloosa,Alabama that year. No sooner did we return home when a trip to compete in the national individual trials in Enid, Oklahoma was announced. I don't remember how much money it cost but it was more than my dad could raise. He felt terrible because he could not fund me but I told him that the honor I had just won was enough. A few days later,he arranged to borrow the money and told me to sign up and go.
When I called, I found I missed the deadline to register and was not going.
The students who did go told us that the competion was weak and most of our players who were not even the best in our state placed first chair in the nationals. A fun but meaningless trip.