Getting a nice splattery sound ala Ciocarlia or Marcovic

[cheburashka]

I'm a euphonium player who flirts with tuba, and I'm trying to get that nasty, raunchy sound that the Balkan brass bands like the Boban Marcovic Orkestar or Fanfar Ciocarlia get out of their bass horns. I'm playing a '30s Conn stencil Eb, and if I get anywhere near the sound they produce, I find the tones won't center and I can't produce the kind of inital percussive punch they have. I believe they're using helicons, and I'm wondering if the sound they get is a function of the horns they play, or just exceptionally good (or bad?) technique. Are these guys just better capable of cranking out the volumes of air? Technique, equipment, or both?

[Donn]

I have that helicon - find the picture of Sasha Alisanovic in http://www.franklondon.com/photos.html, he's wearing something a heck of a lot like my Amati F helicon, with what looks like a Denis Wick mouthpiece.

He only has 3 valves, and you can hear it in the low end.

I'm sure the instrument is part of it. It's responsive in a way that can easily make for a harsh edge. It's also light as a feather and comfortable to wear, and now that it's been cleaned up at a local notable tuba repair mecca it has a very clean, nimble articulation. I imagine my little "beater" Eb tuba is smaller than yours, and it also has a bright, unmuffled tone, but with a more cheerful, lyrical quality that doesn't get abrasive quite so easily.

I unfortunately do not have but one or two Markovic tunes to listen to, will have to review them this evening. I don't hear the tubas very well in Ciocarlia, but the tenors are really conspicuous, sort of a squirting attack that I think you'd practically have to force a western euphonium player to use at gunpoint. No wonder you're looking at the tuba.

Of course these people are also extremely capable players, the cream of the crop in a part of the world where their kind of success is a really, really big deal, and it goes without saying that you can't just buy that sound with a credit card.

I play in a local band that's getting into a bit of that kind of music -- but I'm playing saxophone! The tuba player had some kind of big new Bb front valve thing, a King I think, and I suspect the Conn 2 mouthpiece, and he got a pretty loud, bright but stable sound out of it that worked pretty well. Lots more bass than you hear on the records, but we need it to balance the percussion.

[TubaRay]

Perhaps one of you fine gentlemen can explain to me why you would want the type of sound I have been trying to avoid for the 186 years I have been on the face of this earth. I try to use equipment with which the sound doesn't break up at a very low volume. And just so you know, I play a good deal of polka band-type music. This is not a style where one always wants an ultra-refined sound. I don't think it calls for a blatty or "splattery" one either.

Please enlighten me.

[Donn]

Well, of course we're talking about splattery in a nice way. For an example more or less at random, visit http://www.passiondiscs.com/e_pages/gyp ... _xp015.htm and check out "Grom cocek". Maybe you like, maybe not.

Along maybe similar lines, one of the great tuba players of the previous century is Walter Page, before he switched to string bass, in the Kansas City Blue Devils. It has been too long since I've heard a recording, but that's a sound with an edge, too.

[cheburashka]

I know. . .in some ways it sounds like I'm saying "I want crappy, but in a good way." Still, there's something about what these players do that unleashes a dimension of tuba playing that I've seldom heard elsewhere. Kind of like grossly overweight people who dress in outlandish colors and get in your face, rather than hiding in the back of the room. Perhaps I'm being unfair to the tuba. I'm sure that what I'm hearing in some of the Balkan brass music is carefully orchestrated combination of bass and percussion which heightens that raunchy feel, but in those bands there's an energy that feels as though it's propelled by the tuba, and the tone has to be bright and almost Cimbasso-like for it to work. I understand what you mean about the unwanted qualities of an overblown tuba sound, but if you've listened to (and enjoyed) these bands, you get why that sound is sometimes desirable. Of course, I know several highly skilled and trained brass players who absolutely loathe all aspects of musical genres like Balkan brass or Klezmer, since speed and energy often overshadow precision and intonation in the finished product. However, since the musicians I play with will always favor energy over polish, I find that very often the bass lines I put down with a four valve euph, or even a Eb tuba, are too cultured and seem out of place.

[corbasse]

As I listened to the fragment you linked to, it sounded to me like it has to do a lot with articulation.
Get rid of the "DoooDoooDooo DaaaDaaaDaaa" concept of articulating and speak into the instrument.
It doesn't help of course that the language those guys speak is full of wonderfull and impossible vowels and consonants, (some words consisting entirely of the latter ) but you can try to immitate. Listen and imagine what syllables you would use to sing the stuff. Use those on your tuba.
Of course, not using a 7/4 CC horn does help achieving the sound as well

[Kevin Miller]

That special sound can also be found on the famous tuba solo Dave Bargeron played on "And When I Die" from Blood Sweat & Tear's Live and Improvised. If all tubists tried to get the same sort of tone on everything we played, it would be a pretty boring world. We should embrace the diverse palate of tones available to us and apply them appropriately, or inappropriately. Whatever blows up your skirt, entertains the folk, and makes you a few bucks!

[tubatooter1940]

This sounds like a lot of fun. Tuba is capable of so many different roles and timbres I hope you find the right horn that can give you what you want. Happy tooting!

[tubeast]

Oh, THAT´S what you were talking about...

inital percussive punch... playing a bass trombone part on my tuba.

As somebody already mentioned, forget about the TOOO WAAAH concept. Use fast air and a tiny gap between your lips. Lots of pressure and exaggerated consonants (simulating gunshots played forwards and backwards on a tape recorder: "Pow" vs. "woP") help with percussive sound effects.
By closing the gap between your lips you can also get that bumble-bee effect.