King Sousa numbers

Hank74 · Post by **Hank74** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:58 pm

I would like to ask you sousa experts what does the 14K, 20K, etc. mean for the King sousaphones? I saw these on a music store website. Interestingly enough, there was a fiberglass sousa with a 36K number.

Hank74

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:34 pm

Those are CONN numbers. The 14K is a sousa with standard pistons. The 20K has offset (oval port) pistons. The 36k is a fiberglass sousa with a valveset the same as the 14K.

Hank74 · Post by **Hank74** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:43 pm

My bad about mixing up the numbers with Conn and King. Each brand has their own way of identification.

Hank74

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:48 am

In addition, the 14k has a smaller throat and ofttimes 24" bell; the 20k has a larger throat and the full 26" bell. They both have the same nominal .734 bore, neck, bits, mouthpieces, etc.

The standard King number for years pre-UMI for brass was the 1250 with a .689 bore and 24 to 26 inch bell, depending on when it was made. Before WWII they also made 2 larger sousaphones, as did Martin, but I don't know anything about them. Post-UMI King brass is now the 2350, the fiberglass is 2370 and is also marketed as the Conn 36k. As with a lot of UMI stuff, the fiberglass is exactly the same horn, with the orders determining what decal they stick on the bell before shipping.

Another disturbing example of the UMI cyborg: You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

tubathig · Post by **tubathig** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:56 pm

There is a definate difference between the older conn sousaphones and the new ones. I played one from the late 60's when I was in college and it was fantastique. Then We bought new ones and I got one of them, It wasn't, still better than most sousaphones, but It did not play as well.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:53 pm

tubathig wrote:There is a definate difference between the older conn sousaphones and the new ones.

The major changes happened in 1985 for the 14K's and in 1987 for the 36K's. The Conn 14K became the King 2350 and the Conn 36K became the King 2370. Those dates are when the production was moved to Eastlake from Elkhart during the UMI transition. Same think happened to the 15J Conn tubas. They became the King 1140 in 1987. It's a real pain to specify repair parts unless the date of manufacture is known. The King brand is now under the Conn-Selmer umbrella.