My new (old) York Master

[Bandmaster]

I just received my new (old ) BBb York Master tuba (made by B&M) yesterday and had a chance to play at two rehearsals already. It has a really smooth response and a very centered sound. Pitch is very good, they only problem note is F at the bottom of the staff which is a little sharp but very managable. The high range is very clear and resposive and the pitch is almost dead on. The valves are still nice and tight and very smooth. The only drawback it I don't get the feedback from the horn that I am used to since is has front facing bell. (See question below...)

I got this horn from an auction on eBay acouple of weeks ago. I am still trying to figure out how Harold let this one get away , in fact only 6 bids were placed before mine as time ran out. And I got it for a song... way less than it is worth. It is in fabulous condition for a horn built in the early 1950's, or any other decade for that matter. (See photos below.) After I won the auction from a music dealer, he told me that this horn used to belong to C. Jerrett Miller who played tuba in the City Service Band of America under Paul Lavalle back in the 1950's and 1960's. I hope to be able to talk to him by phone soon to find out more about this horn. He lives in Florida now and I figure he needs time to dry out after Wilma, so I will try calling next week.

My question here is does anyone here know where I might locate a straight up bell for this tuba? He only had the front facing bell and he never owned a straight bell for this horn. Rick Denney is supposed to give me the measurements off of the bell on his York Master, in case I need to have one made. But it would be nice to find an original bell that was meant for this model tuba. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

[Lew]

I like using a recording bell for certain venues, especially when playing under a tent when my sound with an upright bell seems to get lost in the peak. You got a great deal on it.

I have seen a few York Masters in really bad shape come up on eBay with upright bells. Looking out for one of those might be a way to get one. Otherwise, it will be tough to find just an upright bell for this. Will a King 2341 upright bell fit it? There should be plenty of those around.

[dmmorris]

Nice tuba! I have a similar horn, but apparently made by the YORK Band Instrument Co in the late 30's. The valve wrap is basically identical.....B&M must have used the model I have as a template. The only big difference is that mine has large diameter valves (makes my Conn valves look like euphonium valves).

Mine is not all prettied-up like yours (yet), but I'll try to take some pictures to post for comparison. and also do a side-by-side comparing the York valve with the Conn valve.

[Bandmaster]

Thanks for those leads, I will check out both of them.

I like using a recording bell for certain venues, especially when playing under a tent when my sound with an upright bell seems to get lost in the peak. You got a great deal on it.

I have seen a few York Masters in really bad shape come up on eBay with upright bells. Looking out for one of those might be a way to get one. Otherwise, it will be tough to find just an upright bell for this. Will a King 2341 upright bell fit it? There should be plenty of those around.

I thought having the front facing bell would come in handy as well. I play in one community band that uses an auditorium that just eats up the tuba sound and won't let it project from the stage. There are a few other venues where it might come in handy as well.

This will be my back up horn eventually, after I get my Holton back from Dan Oberloh. I was able to sell the Sanders (Chinese) copy of the Miraphone 191 that I had been using and came out $300 buck ahead, after paying for this York Master. So I figured it was a great deal, even if the I had to look for an extra bell. It is a much better playing horn than the Sanders and will hold it's value a lot better. Plus it has a cool history.

[imperialbari]

Congratulations on your York Master BBb!

It has the exact same 4th valve tubing wrap as mine (as opposed to the sample owned by Rick Denney, which has a very open wrap sitting on the back of the body).

Your sample only is in much better shape dentwise than mine. Mine still is a fine player.

You shouldn’t be too unhappy about the bell-front. The tuba actually is in much better tune with the bell-front than with the bell-up.

If you tilt the tuba to the left, you may turn the bell so, that it will play more vertically upwards, than can be done on almost any bell-up tuba.

If you want to hear yourself better during rehearsals, then just turn the bell towards the nearest wall.

Congratulations!

Klaus

[Rick Denney]

Nice tuba! I have a similar horn, but apparently made by the YORK Band Instrument Co in the late 30's. The valve wrap is basically identical.....B&M must have used the model I have as a template. The only big difference is that mine has large diameter valves (makes my Conn valves look like euphonium valves).

Mine is not all prettied-up like yours (yet), but I'll try to take some pictures to post for comparison. and also do a side-by-side comparing the York valve with the Conn valve.

They are similar in pictures, but not nearly as identical as you would think. I suspect B&M had a picture of an instrument and used that--there is no more similarity than that.

http://www.rickdenney.com/old_vs_new_york.htm

Rick "glad of the reminder of the promised measurements, but who is in Denver until the weekend and who will therefore probably need another reminder" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Will a King 2341 upright bell fit it?

Nope. The bell ring on the King is lower on the bell stack than it is on the YM. Also, the ring that is attached to the King bell is a coupling that forms the inside surface of the bell stack for a little over an inch. The YM bell looks to be cut from a one-piece bell, with the attachment ring soldered to the outside. The bell skin extends all the way to the tip of the attachment ring. I suspect this is how they got away with the ring being high on the stack where the throat is already starting to flare out.

The YM's attachment ring is larger than the King's by enough to make the use of the King bell no easier than starting from any given bell of approximately the correct size and making it work.


Chuck G. and I once did a little thinking out loud about the possibility of replacing the YM bell with a Miraphone 186 bell all the way down to the ferrule at the bottom bow. I've measure it and I think it would work. The 186 bell would need to be trimmed several inches from the small end, but I think if trummed to fit properly in the ferrule would be about the right size. The YM might actually benefit from a bell with a llittle bigger throat and faster stack taper, but that is, of course, no more than frivolous speculation. One would give up bell interchangeability, but I toss it out there because it's an option.

Rick "extremely interested in what Dave finds out from the first owner" Denney

[TubaTodd]

I know where there is (or was) a silver York Master bell collecting dust. My teacher in college (Ithaca College), David Unland, played on a York Master for years. He had 2 detachable bells. He settled on a raw brass one with his silver body. The silver bell just sat on top of a cabinet in his studio. He may still have it and he might sell it. The likelihood is slim, but it would be worth talking with him.

[dmmorris]

--there is no more similarity than that.

The 4th valve wrap on Ricks York ad' picture, Dave's horn, and my horn are remarkably similar. When did B&M change the plumbing?

[Bandmaster]

I know where there is (or was) a silver York Master bell collecting dust. My teacher in college (Ithaca College), David Unland, played on a York Master for years. He had 2 detachable bells. He settled on a raw brass one with his silver body. The silver bell just sat on top of a cabinet in his studio. He may still have it and he might sell it. The likelihood is slim, but it would be worth talking with him.

Finally....

Here is my York Master with David Unland's old bell. Not his original silver bell, but this was the raw brass bell that he used. He put his York Master up for sale at Dillon Music and I made deal to buy the bell. They are selling the tuba with its original bell as a matched set. The bell I have is larger than the original bell, 22" across compared to 20" on the original. I had the bell fixed up and plated to match my horn.

[tubeast]

Now THIS is looking great.
Saved it to my "Tuba dorn"-folder right away.
So how does it play in direct comparison to the recording setup ??

[Bandmaster]

Now THIS is looking great.
Saved it to my "Tuba dorn"-folder right away.
So how does it play in direct comparison to the recording setup ??

Now you can save another version, I updated the photo to a better view.

I played it for a couple weeks and in one concert before I decided to get it fixed up. It was just too beat up to look right on my horn. I take pride in how my horns look. Since it sounded really good I spent the bucks to get it straightened out and I had Zig Kanstul plate it for me a couple of days ago.

It is easier to hear yourself with the upright bell, sound comes from a more familiar spot. I have been told by others that with the bell front my sound comes across too strong and can over balance. With the upright bell I get more of a reflected sound that matches the other players better. I play in a couple groups, one needs the front facing bell because the acoustics of the stage we perform on is really bad for tubas and they need the extra projection to balance the rest of the brass section. Plus several other tubas in that group use bell front horns too. The other group doesn't have the same acoustical problem and they want me to blend with the section more, since none of them have front facing bells. So now I can cover both venues.