Beginner tuba: Eb or small bore BBb?

[iiipopes]

I'd like to see a real discussion here and compare and contrast viewpoints on how to start beginning tuba players. If I understand correctly, a lot of UK students start on an Eb and decide later if they want to play BBb, since each instrument has its own place. In the USA, it is common to start a player on an "American" style hybrid euphonium/baritone (bell & 3 valves, both front) and switch when the student is physically large enough to hold onto a tuba or carry a sousaphone.

Physical size of the student, changing octaves as opposed to changing fingerings, bass clef vs treble clef, progression of size of mouthpiece, pedagogy, comparision of teaching techniques, personal experience on how you came to be a tuba player: please air it all out, as with tubas being so large, it is difficult to get a good start on the instrument. If there is already a thread on the old TubeNet that addresses this, please tell me. Thanks.

[DonShirer]

British tuba students find it easier to start on either one because they both read transposed treble clef music and the same written note=the same key combination on both.

My granddaughter started on Bb tuba in junior high (a surprise to me--she originally liked sax but found the tuba easier) because the junior high only had Bb models. I suspect most HS band directors do not want to deal with the hassle of having their students learn the fingering for a new key, since in this country all tubists read non-transposed bass clef.

I started on an Eb because it was the only tuba my (small) high school owned. Of course when I went on to college I had to switch to Bb (with only minor problems), but I imagine a busy junior high Eb starter might have a bit more trouble switching to Bb in high school.

Don S.
Westbrook, CT

[SplatterTone]

Checking tuba prices in the USA one finds that there is not an abundance of affordable E-flat tubas running around. I suspect that's got a lot to do with it. However, I did find a Cerveny E-flat for $2420 at Dillon.

When my 11 year old son was presented with an "opportunity" to play a small tuba, it took less than a minute of having an instrument that was about 25% his body weight parked in his lap for him to decide that this was not his idea of enjoyment. I can't blame him. Although I still retain a fair amount of heft from my old power lifting days, I can't say that I would be all poops and giggles about having a 50-pound-plus bunch of brass to sit in my lap and haul around (plus the case).

So he is playing euphonium.

[Dan Schultz]

I agree with a previous poster that there is absolutely nothing 'wrong' with an Eb tuba. I started on an Eb tuba.... but that was waaay back in the 50's... in a day when beginning band directors in the US could easily switch a trumpet player or a treble clef baritone player to an Eb tuba if he wished. I don't know of any currently available & low priced Eb tubas on the market today. I think it would be a dirty trick to start a beginning student on Eb, anyway... since the conventional high school band seems to be totally acclimated to BBb horns. If you are interested in a small BBb tuba with a big sound I would suggest a Yamaha YBB301 or a YBB321.

[RyanSchultz]

My only concern about either bugle is when a Middle School director gives a youngster an Eb to start on without explaining the difference and then, a few moths later switches the poor kid to a BBb. I've seem this a few times and it is never pretty. The student generally gets pretty confused.

[Donn]

Checking tuba prices in the USA one finds that there is not an abundance of affordable E-flat tubas running around. I suspect that's got a lot to do with it. However, I did find a Cerveny E-flat for $2420 at Dillon.

When my 11 year old son was presented with an "opportunity" to play a small tuba, it took less than a minute of having an instrument that was about 25% his body weight parked in his lap for him to decide that this was not his idea of enjoyment. I can't blame him. Although I still retain a fair amount of heft from my old power lifting days, I can't say that I would be all poops and giggles about having a 50-pound-plus bunch of brass to sit in my lap and haul around (plus the case).

I thought kids were like ants, they could lift a higher percentage of their weight than full sized people.

Not only are economical Eb tubas scarce, what really hurts is that many of those few have only 3 valves. Plenty of cheap BBb 4-valvers, even though their 4th valve is not nearly as essential.

My little Eb tuba really made a difference to me, as a latecomer to the tuba with lots to learn. But I might have done as well to hang on to the 3/4 Olds beater I started with, not sure at this point. I somewhat doubt it's about the key.

[tubeast]

Our community band owns a really tiny 4-valved F, and when one 11-year-old kid showed up and wanted to play, that´s what I had him start with.
The horn is so small and lightweight he can comfortably lug it around on staircases wearing inline skates
(I flamed him for that AFTER he had reached the bottom floor so he wouldn´t fall at the shock of being yelled at).

I started him on F for two reasons:
- the band needs young F tubists, because there are several contrabasses already
- the available BBbs are full grown 25 pounds giants with huge and sharp bottom bow guards (You know, the ridge type) that even I didn´t care to have in my lap for any length of time
- That being said, the boy was maybe a third of my weight

I made sure, though, that he learned right away the principles behind the fingerings. (You know what I mean, the concept of adding half steps to fill the intervals between partials, and using as few valves as possible).
I think this is important. I frequently met players with years of playing experience who gave me puzzled looks when I asked them to "play half a step lower from where you are".

Having played accordion for several years before, he picked that up in a snap. In case he wants to play any different pitch later, he´ll be just fine.

[iiipopes]

Well, with just a few exceptions above, it seems BBb is preferred. So, the next corollary: Which BBb? The Jupiter 378 seems well liked, Yamaha are always mentioned, but how about others? Like a reconditioned King Cleveland "Junior" sousaphone with a smaller bore? Any more thoughts?

[WilliamVance]

I think it is more realistic in today's public schools to start a new Tuba player on a BBb horn. A lot of schools have 3/4 sized tubas that younger players can start on and when the director/teacher feel the student has "maxxed" out thier smaller horn them possible they could move on to a 4/4 and up.

I have seen some interesting intrument swithches where a mediocre woodwindplayer makes the switch to Tuba after learning basic music fundamentals and is a fantastic tuba player within months to a year. I started on flute because it was the easiest instrument to carry to and from school. Then the next year I switched to Alto Sax since it was "cool" and everyone wanted to play sax. I didn't really ever get to into the sax and after my first marching season on sax in high school quickly became fascinated with the Tuba. My director back then was exstatic that a Freshman wanted to switch to Tuba since all of the current tubists were seniors and there were 15 alto saxes in band. I took home an old, leaky pan american sousaphone that had been left to sieze up in the bands forgotten instrument attic and got a quainted with it. When we started concert band I was playing the nicer Conn 12J very easily at school. The next school year I was the tuba section leader, and made District Honor Band and Second Chair all-state. I also learned Euphonium my Junior year and picked up on the in a matter of days, but it did take some practive to hit that High G everytime.

So would it be better to start a player on a Eb or Bb horn? I don't think it matters too much, unless fingering seems to be hard for the player to learn. I think it would be wiser to start a smaller player that could not handle a tuba yet on a Euphnium or Baritone reading Bass Clef. That way they would probably only have to learn the fingers and Bass Clef staff for an octive below the staff. Also I'm not sure that many schools have Eb Tubas on hand anymore. I would agree H.N. Whites catalogue suggestion that if there are several Tubas (3 or more) that adding an Eb horn for every 3 basses to play upper parts would really fill out the bass section.