Moving/swaying while playing...

[SqueakyOnion]

Whenever I play, when I'm more or less "into the music," I tend to move the horn around a little bit, or sway, or some sort of motion. I never really notice it, because it's a subconcious thing, but some friends of mine have noticed (and make sure to cut the crap outta me for it )

In any case, is it bad in any way to sway or move with the horn while playing?

Thanks.

[Monty]

If you are in control of your part and no one is complaining about your sound then your cool.
If it feels good, move. Aside from being in a performance context where uniformity of presentation is part of the aesthetic- why should anyone care?
And friendly joking aside; I would be leery of anyone who seriously tries to "correct" how you are manifesting music- even a teacher-that ought to be entirely your perogative
One thing I notice about players that move around alot tho- bassists in particular- is that alot of jumping can make the
music wobbly- but if youre using movement to actually shape your phrases- its all you - enjoy it.
I play in dance bands so Im biased/limited - I do find that some of the heaviest bassists I ever hear in the music I like- are often really still and controlled while they play- but I think it depends more on how the move is related to the sound- record yourself.

[MikeMason]

in response to-"I would be leery of anyone who seriously tries to "correct" how you are manifesting music- even a teacher-that ought to be entirely your perogative "




' it's a teacher's job to bring out the best in his pupil.if the teacher feels you should move less,do it.if you're compelled,do it when he's not around.if you don't trust the teacher's judgement,find another teacher...my opinion,of course...

[brianf]

It really depends on how much motion you do. Guess a little motion doesn't hurt but if there are a lot of motions, it's a different thing.

Here you need to look at the physiology of the body. If you lean to the right severely, your right lung's capacity id diminished. Lean to the left and the left lung is diminished. What happens? Shallow breathing!

Same can be true with bad posture.

[Tom Mason]

While I will be the first to admit that I don't teach at the same level as those you are trying to get a response from, I will add my two cents......

For my beginners and middle school players, I tend to discourage movement because of stability issues. We use good chairs, and teach good seating and breathing. We focus further on a good embouchure setting, and try to get students to repeat these proper steps daily. When we get movement in a student who has not displayed a good embouchure and horn carrage, then we are asking for trouble.

High school and college players who have established good characteristics are allowed to be more expressive in their music making endeavors. There is a point however when the movement gets in the way of making music. The comments about bass players moving comes to the front as I teach bass privately to area students. When I teach bass, I encourage enough movement to get the job done, but not extra. I also try to teach alternate positions and fingerings to help eliminate movement.

While this is not addressed as such, the tilt that is used to help range in tuba players can be overdone as well as expressive movements.

IMHO

Tom Mason

[windshieldbug]

FWFW, in my experience it can work both ways. Depends on the situation.

I think moving a little is OK. As long as you are accurate, that means by extension that you are not using so much pressure that you are rigid; rather, you are using little or none on your chops. Music is a means of communication. It should move your audience AND you. A little. I agree in a non-solo or non quintet-type situation it can be annoying to your audience if the person-with-the-big-shiny-thing-over-their-head is distracting them from doing what they paid to sit and do.

I have a cellist friend who plays EVERYTHING like it's a romantic era solo. Including figured bass. He plays beautifully, often tours with big name orchestras, but you need to have your eyes shut if you're in the audience. He way over-does it even when he's principal, and way-way-way if he's not. In a non-solo or small group situation it can be death for your communication to the audience if overdone. So, the most important part is context.

Solos or etudes are one thing. But be able to turn it off or tone it down when the situation calls for it.

[Mark]

I agree in a non-solo or non quintet-type situation it can be annoying to your audience...

It can also be annoying to your fellow musicians, especially the two on either side of you who are just waiting for you to bang your bell into them.

I subbed in a orchestra recently, where the bass player next to me was actually dancing while she played. It was mostly her feet, so the audience may or may not have noticed, but it was definitely distractying to her fellow musicians.

[Dan Schultz]

I think this falls into the same catagory as patting ones foot. Patting of the foot should be done INSIDE the shoe. Body motion should be done INSIDE the clothing!... except in cases of solo work as one previous poster mentioned.

[tubatooter1940]

"Ripple in the cloth",you say? Shocking!

[Chuck(G)]

It's fine for sousaphones, I think.

Otherwise, what's so different about moving around while playing from tapping one's foot or counting rests aloud? It's annoying to others and can be distracting.

All of the above can be done mentally without external motion.

I think flute players, however, are expected to rock and sway as they play. I've seen workshops on just that topic.

[Rick Denney]

I once played for a conductor who thought we weren't feeling the music because we didn't move enough. So, he thought if we moved more, we would feel the music more.

Wrong.

What he discovered was that now, instead of thinking about making the correct notes at the correct dynamic and at the correct time, we were thinking about whether he would be impressed with our impassioned body movements. Musical expression moved from second place in our thoughts to third place. He diagnosed the symptom but not the disease.

Bottom line: If the music moves you, then the thinking you have to do to prevent it might distract you from the music. If you can express the music without moving, then explicitly moving might distract you from the music. Moving while playing is one of those secondary things that should not be treating like a primary thing.

If you are moving so much as to damage your ability to breathe or keep the mouthpiece on your lips, I submit that it is not the music you are thinking about, but rather the appearance of making music. Hopefully, a teacher will observe and correct that fault. If the music is dead, pretending to be a solo violinist is not what will bring it to life.

Rick "who thinks those for whom musical expression comes naturally are as apt to confuse cause and effect as those who struggle" Denney

[UDELBR]

It seems that lots of players in Europe use motion in lieu of genuine musical expression. Motion is used mainly to sell your colleagues on your musicality.

If you're swaying, it must be good.

[Leland]

Moving together sure seems to help a brass quintet stay together.

That's more for ensemble cues, though, not visual expression.

Movement is fine, I don't care. However, when it's contrived -- that is, when you can see that they're moving from the brain rather than the heart -- it really, really annoys me.

I think that good movement isn't even noticeable. I don't mean that it's nearly frozen still, but that it looks natural, not staged or pompous.

[Dylan King]

I say throw on a pair of tap shoes and be a one man band.

[windshieldbug]

I say throw on a pair of tap shoes and be a one man band.

... and I thought that studio was carpeted!

[Chuck(G)]

Don't get me wrong...The Berlin Phil is a fine orchestra...but I LMAO every time I see them on TV, as every member of that orchestra dances around in their chair as if they are the concertmaster.

You forgot about soulful facial grima--er--expressions:



I think he just bit his tongue...

[windshieldbug]

I think he just bit his tongue...

A clear case of vowel envy...

[THE TUBA]

I (or so I am told) make facial expressions while playing that coorespond to the tone and mood of the piece at hand. Needless to say, my friends thought I despised The Ride ( ) until they informed them that it was one of my favorite excerpts (although I wish it would sound like one of my favorite excerpts when I play it ).

[SqueakyOnion]

First I suppose I should specify that my primary instrument is euphonium, and I really only play tuba on the side. The movement I do is not conscious, I typcially realize I am moving after I complete a musical phrase, usually a very lyrical section. Also, my movement generally occurs at the waist...my horn, hands, and head generally stay fixed, and I tend to just sway a little bit, when going up in a phrase. I've been told that my shoulders sometimes "shrug" up about 2 or 3 inches.

I do know, however, that I've never even come close to falling off the chair or anything, nor have I ever clashed bells with anyone (on tuba or euph). I also almost never move, at all, during technical passages.

I also notice myself moving more during solo's in the music, or when practicing a solo at home...perhaps just because I'm alone and am more aware of myself?

In Humanities class we discuss music philosophy, and one of the articles dealt with the instrument becoming an extension of one's body, such as how a cane becomes part of the owner's body. The instrument is no longer a series of valve combinations and embouchure placements, it is as if you are thinking or feeling the music through the horn. Instead of YOU playing the HORN, you've just got the YOU, making music, the horn has become a part of your body. Realizing that one needs a certain level of technical proficiency to achieve this, I haven't decided whether or not that's what I'm doing. Regardless, it's something I'd like to achieve someday.

So I guess the general consensus here is that a little is ok, but not too much, especially in larger group ensembles. If anyone has anything else to add, please do...

[windshieldbug]

... and IF you do, it should be natural, as you say, an extension of one's body, not contrived or something you need to put thought into.