a mouthpiece for symphony orchestra

[LauriH]

Hi,

I play in a amateur symphony orchestra and had been starting to wonder if it really matter what mouthpiece you use for the low parts. From my experience tubist have to play quite loud in a symphony orchestra. I have an Eb Tuba and I use Shilcke 66 or Roger Bobo solo mouthpieces. I also own Bach 12, but the rim too big for me.

Well all of this came to my mind because I noticed it's quite hard to play forte or fortissimo from low Bb (not pedal) or below it. Any thought if purchasing a new mouthpiece would be the solution or should I have learn to blow even faster?

[NickJones]

I don't change my mouthpiece , I use a different instrument for different sounds , I might use a Bb tuba for Russian stuff , for European and British Music I use an Eb , saying that Eb tuba works for Gershwin stuff like American in Paris and Porgy and Bess , also using an Eb on Sibelius ( finlandia , Symph 2 ) just for volume and roundness of sound , I prefer Perantucci Mouthpieces , comfortable , responsive and good at extreme low and high dynamics.
I have also seen a Besson 980 Tuba , slightly smaller bell than the normal sovereign ( 17 inch I think) very responsive in the lower register , as used by Les Neish and Tubalate ( Besson Artists )

[tubeast]

Lauri,

from what you wrote I take it that you´re referring to the Eb´s 4+ valve combinations. All horns tend to get stuffy down there, especially so when they´re compensated.

To me, a set of two mouthpieces does the trick when playing CC-tuba in large ensembles (50 to 90 persons).
General playing: PT-50+ (quite large already, sweet sound at all dynamics, safe and open in high register). There are limits to volume at the low end, though.

Bombastic playing unleashing the monster, taking it down an octave to and beyond pedal range:
old mouthpiece that I´ve altered myself on Dad´s lathe.
Real big rim (some 34-35 mm, I haven´t measured, but will), 9.5 mm bore.
(Tone is a little rough, especially at midrange in the staff. High range is hard to control.)

I use a 24AW for general F-tuba-playing, but would bring the PT-50+ as a volume booster. The "BIG-un´" sounds ridiculous here.

[LauriH]

from what you wrote I take it that you´re referring to the Eb´s 4+ valve combinations. All horns tend to get stuffy down there, especially so when they´re compensated.

Correct assumption. The 4+ valve combinations and stuffines of the sound might the problem in the first place. But still I haven't had this problem in windbands even if I were playing very low parts of second tuba. I mean occasions were I had to play low F or E with 1+3+4 or 1+2+3+4 fingerings.

I hope that I could fix this problem without buying new tubas. Although it's very tempting to buy a new horn it's still much cheaper to buy couple of new mouthpieces.

[Roger Lewis]

I would have to ask - in your normal practicing, how much time do you spend in the low register?

Rather than changing mouthpieces, spend some time practicing in the low register. Once your brain figures out the trick of getting the lips INTO the mouthpiece and soft tissue vibrating against soft tissue with a broader air stream, not a faster one, you will see the improvement you are seeking.

Mouthpieces are a compromise. You always have to give something up to get something else. In my limited experience I find that the horn makes about a 20% difference in sound and the mouthpiece makes about a 5% difference in sound. The rest of it is the human body. Whent you throw a tuba at a wall, when it hits, you will hear the only sound that IT makes. The human body is the instrument, the horn is an amplifier and changes the color of what you put into it.

Work on YOU first - you'll be glad you did.

Just my $0.02

[TubaRay]

I would have to ask - in your normal practicing, how much time do you spend in the low register?

Rather than changing mouthpieces, spend some time practicing in the low register. Once your brain figures out the trick of getting the lips INTO the mouthpiece and soft tissue vibrating against soft tissue with a broader air stream, not a faster one, you will see the improvement you are seeking.

Mouthpieces are a compromise. You always have to give something up to get something else. In my limited experience I find that the horn makes about a 20% difference in sound and the mouthpiece makes about a 5% difference in sound. The rest of it is the human body. Whent you throw a tuba at a wall, when it hits, you will hear the only sound that IT makes. The human body is the instrument, the horn is an amplifier and changes the color of what you put into it.

Work on YOU first - you'll be glad you did.

Just my $0.02

It seems to me that this should be required reading for all of us on TubeNet. This would especially be true for those about to ask mouthpiece questions. From my experience, Roger has totally nailed the reality about mouthpieces.

[trseaman]

My situation with low notes has been somewhat similar. I just got a Mirafone 186 after playing a King 2341 for a number of years. I'm having problems maintaining pitch of the low notes and they sound stuffy. I've been using a MF3 and searching for different MP's that might work better with the new horn. But as Roger suggested, I started really working the lower register and flexability (low/high exercises). In a sense really working my chops & embrosure. So to my surprise... The notes are getting easier to hit & maintain!!!

I've got a couple different MP's on the way because I still want to experiment but it's true, practicing really helps!!!

Regards, Tim

[tubatooter1940]

I finally wound up with a Kelly 24AW on my Eb King. I sacrificed a tad of high notes- being now limited to high Eb but my bottom range is full and fine. This is good because I spend 90% of my time down there when I play rock bass lines.

[LauriH]

I started to think about it if I should train my lower register. Yes, I have to admit that it might be the problem in the first place that I can't do the trick of keeping my chops and embouchure in the right position. I had a chance to try a horn that is bit smaller than mine and I think that it was easier to play in low register than my own tuba.

It also might be the problem that I try too hard in the symphony orchestra and forget things I should do to maintain good playing.

The things you said are all things I should know already but it was a good reminder. Answer to the question "Does it really matter what moutpiece I use in low register?" would be "No, you should just learn how to play them."

Thanks for you all...

[Roger Lewis]

It's interesting to note your signature. Take that thought one step further. Babies and monkeys can buzz their lips - I can teach a monkey to push the valves on a tuba while doing this - I can't however teach a monkey to play a musical line. What does this mean? You only have to be a little smarter than a monkey to be a brass player.

Just one of my many random thoughts.

[LauriH]

It's interesting to note your signature.

Actually the thought is not mine. I'm not sure who said it but anyway he was a trumpetist. Well this thought was first things that really made me thought and become intrested of good brass playing. I'm not going to argue about musicality of monkies. The main point is, or so I think, is that in brass (doesn't include musical lines, just making the sound) playing good breathing is the main thing that makes the sound. Airstream or blowing is as important too but the first thing is good breathing. You cannot have a proper airstream if there isn't enough air.

And anyway I think that there is more in brass playing than buzzing, pushing valves and playing musical lines. Sure these are deadly important if you want to make different sounds or play music. But there is also many factors that makes brass playing good. If you don't have your embouchure, airstream, chops etc. right you won't have a good sound or good music.

Well maybe it should be correct it in some way. It sure doesn't include idea of music or good sound in it. But then the thought is not mine so I wouldn't like to chance it.

Good point though Roger....

[Mark E. Chachich]

Roger Lewis is correct.

However, one more point. I have never been able to get the low range of my (or any other) E flat tuba to work with a large or medium mouthpiece. I have no problems in any range with a small mouthpiece in my E flat (Bach 25). In my opinion the bass tuba functions better with a mouthpiece sized for it and not for the contrabass tuba.

best of luck,
Mark