small old Eb tubas

Donn · Post by **Donn** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:08 pm

Bob1062 wrote:OK, I have 3 mouthpieces that "could" fit- trombone 1.5G, Schilke 60, and a tuba 24AW american shank.

Does anyone think that I could somewhat fit the 24AW, just for purposes of trying out the instruments? I'm afraid that my trombone mouthpieces might affect pitch, tone...

If you can't borrow something, you might be able to make this work after a fashion. The mouthpiece will not fit a small Eb receiver, so you have to use something like duct tape. It will be sloppy and may cause intonation problems, but still it's probably better than the trombone mouthpieces. I did this while awaiting my DW 5.

TubaSteve · Post by **TubaSteve** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:19 pm

Well, I have looked at the mystery horn, it says "Beau I Deal"
"Chicago Illinois"
It has a 12" bell, stands 29" tall is 14" across. There is no serial number that I can find. Anyone have any clues? Thanks
Steve

TubaSteve · Post by **TubaSteve** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:15 pm

Beergardenblatter wrote:"Beau Ideal" was a marketing label used by Lyon & Healy, I believe most if not all the instruments bearing this mark were imported from France. Circa 1890 to about 1910 plus or take a few I believe.

Thanks so much!

Lyon & Healy? Hmm, I don't know much about them, but I had suspected that it's age was from at least pre 1920. I would suspect that Oberloh's could do a miracle on it, but it's probably not worth much anyway. Were there a lot of these imported? I would like to entertain some economy type overhaul on it. but I would have to have someone with credentials look it over.
Thanks again!
Steve

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:32 pm

Beau Ideal would be a tradename for Lyon & Healy in Chicago (the same one that is now notable for harps). There are some other ways to assign a possible date, too. The McKinley Act of 1891 required that all instruments be labeled with information on where it was manufactured. Â So you may see, for example a horn that will also say "slovakia" on the leadpipe receiver. After 1896 the McKinley Act was amended to state that the country label must also be in English. A later law in 1923 added "made in ". . . to the requirement. Many Lyon & Healy horns were made in France, but they used a number of manufacurers (including in this country) for many different tradenames.

see: Lyon & Healy History

TubaSteve · Post by **TubaSteve** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:49 am

Again, Thanks so much! It gives me a starting point to work from. I can't find any stamp on it to state "France" or any other name on it to identify it, so does this mean that it is pre-1891. Does anyone here know of some repair shops that may be interested in doing an "Economy" style overhaul, not cosmetic, just fuctional.
Steve

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:06 am

TubaSteve wrote: I can't find any stamp on it to state "France" or any other name on it to identify it, so does this mean that it is pre-1891.

It might, but not if it was actually made in the US. Besides Conn and Martin and other companies, there has been some debate over whether Lyon & Healy actually made their own horns for a while. The mouthpiece reciever was a common place to identify an import, but it could be on the valves or bell.

When maufacturers built horns for other companies to put their own names on, these horns are known as "stencils". Welcome to the wonderful world of stencil dating!

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:13 am

Bob1062 wrote: And it sounds FANTASTIC

The important thing is to find a good horn for YOU, and it sounds like you did. Congratulations! Sounds like you done good!

With a high pitch Eb horn, and the main slide all the way in, maybe D is 421 ?? (A 421 Eb would make it VERY flat... ) If it's a high pitch horn with the tuning slide way out, usually the valve slides will need to be out a little, too.

If you go with a new leadpipe, I recommend that you make sure you can try it first before it's all finished up to make sure that it works with the mouthpieces that you want it to. Some of the horns of this period a very sensitive to BIG mouthpieces. But the angle for sure should be something that is more comfortable to you.

TubaSteve · Post by **TubaSteve** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:54 am

The maker of this horn and mine are the same. Mine has the same style of brace anchors and engraving as this horn. http://neillins.com/tb001.htm
Although this horn was raw brass, and is claimed to be from the early 1890's, mine had a matte silver plate on it.
This is almost as much fun as playing it. I have another horn that I have to figure out what it it. It is also the only one that I have seen like it. It is a 3/4 BB Lyons "Monarch" that has stamped on the lead pipe, "Made in Western Germany". It does have a serial number, I would guess mid-50's?-60's?
Steve

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:58 am

FWIW, Lyons was established in 1930 as dealers and reapairers

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:47 am

TubaSteve wrote: I have another horn that I have to figure out what it it. It is also the only one that I have seen like it. It is a 3/4 BB Lyons "Monarch" that has stamped on the lead pipe, "Made in Western Germany". It does have a serial number, I would guess mid-50's?-60's?
Steve

Letâ€™s see some photos of the "Monarch".

As I recall it there only were 3 makers in the then West Germany, which put out high volumes. 2 of them were proud enough to put their own names on all of their instruments, one was less ambitious.

If the spelling really is "Made in Western Germany" then we even may have a sample of a "workaround" about the official term of "Made in West Germany".

Anything stamped "Made in Germany" came from the GDR. And as they were strapped for currencies convertible to US$, they would cheat whenever and wherever possible.

But letâ€™s see the photos.

Klaus