Stainless Steel Mouthpiece?!?

[Billy M.]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 17615&rd=1

Anyone know anything about this let alone has tried one?? They appear interesting enough and smooth shaped, but what kind of a sound would come out from a 100% stainless steel mouthpiece?

Would anyone know if it's worth the $135 they're asking for it???

[Leland]

Why don't you ask the manufacturer? He posted in this thread:

viewtopic.php?t=1389&highlight=stainles ... mouthpiece

[Dean E]

First, I would only recommend surgical grade stainless steel, in order to avoid allergic reactions to the nickel used in stainless steel.
Second, boring a mouthpiece's backbore would be a difficult lathe operation in which to achieve acceptable quality control. Why? The boring bar has to be a very small diameter, which unfortunately allows it to spring away from the surface being bored. Furthermore, stainless steel will "work harden" at the surface being machined, which makes it very difficult to achieve the correct dimensions during boring operations.
Brass, on the other hand, cuts like butter, permitting consistently dimensioned mouthpieces.

[Ivan Giddings]

First, I would only recommend surgical grade stainless steel, in order to avoid allergic reactions to the nickel used in stainless steel.
Second, boring a mouthpiece's backbore would be a difficult lathe operation in which to achieve acceptable quality control. Why? The boring bar has to be a very small diameter, which unfortunately allows it to spring away from the surface being bored. Furthermore, stainless steel will "work harden" at the surface being machined, which makes it very difficult to achieve the correct dimensions during boring operations.
Brass, on the other hand, cuts like butter, permitting consistently dimensioned mouthpieces.

Dean,

Thank you for pointing out some of the common concerns that folks have when considering stainless steel mouthpieces. I do feel it's important to respond from my experience (and more importantly that of my partner Bob Webster who has been a machinist for over 30 years, and in addition worked in the nuclear field where he learned how to machine many different materials to precise standards ).

We're using a brand new Romi G20i with a GE-Fanuc 21i-T controller, and yes, it CAN be more difficult ...but stainless steel also cuts like butter, when you are working with someone who knows how to machine it, uses the correct tools (usually solid carbide), and knows what feeds and speeds to have the machine operate at. We use a solid carbide boring bar (this is at least three times as rigid as a steel boring bar) for the backbore, and it works wonderfully .

On to consistency...
Quality control is very important to us. Not only are we using a brand new machine, but we have made our own gauges to check each mouthpiece immediately upon completion. Our gauges measure backbore, cup depth, throat, and rim. We have a quality control tolerance that only allows for +/- .002 of an inch . For comparison purposes, a human hair is on average of .003" thick. It has taken some work to get to this point, but now our mouthpieces are just as consistant as brass mouthpieces because a) we know how to machine that material we are working with (and are using a new lathe) and b) we check them carefully for consistency after we have finished each one.

As to allergies, there are people that are allergic to brass, silver, gold etc. Each individual needs to choose a mouthpieces that works best for her/him. So far, none of the people who regularly play on or have tested our mouthpieces have had any kind of allergic reaction (something we're VERY happy about )

Hope that clarifies the issue a bit!

Ivan

[Ivan Giddings]

I tried a stainless steel mouthpiece once. I am not sure if it was made by the same manufacturer. The only thing I remember is that I had concerns about the non-plyable metal mouthpiece sitting into a plyable metal receiver.
It also left a funny taste of metal in my mouth

More good thoughts about stainless steel Feel free to PM or email me if you have any other specific questions about our mouthpieces so as not to clutter the forum

A couple quick thoughts about these concerns...
First, there are at least 30 different types of stainless steel and each type has different characteristics.
Second, we have had no issues with the mouthpiece causing any stretching or other physical changes of receivers--good news!
Lastly, since our mouthpieces have been at "research and development" status until two weeks ago (and we still have all the original designs in our possession), I'm fairly certain that the one you tried wasn't made by us. We did find that one of our prototypes did leave an "aftertaste", so we've avoided using that alloy in our current designs. I'd venture to guess that the mouthpiece you tried was made of that same stainless or perhaps it just wasn't polished and cleaned properly.

If anyone has any additional concerns/questions I would like to hear them because we are currently working on a website, and it would be great to know what topics we should be sure to address!

Ivan Giddings
G&W Mouthpieces
tubastudio@yahoo.com

[Ivan Giddings]

I would like to read some comparisons of the sound and playing characteristics of stainless steel mouthpieces with well-regarded mpc such as Laskeys, Floyd Cooley Helle., and so on. The metal is less important than the sound produced. Bill

I hope to have all these questions answered on the website we are creating, however this is taking more time than I excpected

So I will attempt to give you a brief answer without skipping too much info

I believe the material does make a difference in the way a mouthpiece responds. We have made the same mouthpieces out of brass, and stainless, and found one to sound different than the other and I like the difference

I have played tuba for about 18 years and recently finished my masters in tuba performance at Penn State and during this time I have managed to purchase three tubas that I feel best represent my ideal tuba sound They are a Holton 6/4 rusk cut, Canadian brass/Getzen 4/4, and a Meinl Weston 6/4 F tuba.

I started messing around with mouthpieces I owned, after going to a masters class by Ellis Wean an amazing player.

Before I started making stainless steel mouthpieces I played on a lot different mouthpieces, and I most enjoyed my Conn helleberg7, and 7b. Along with my laskey 28, Arnold Jacobs canadian brass Helleberg, and my PT 88, and 64. I started by making each of these mouthpieces shorter rather than drilling them out I now own several $$$$ worth of short mouthpieces. And each one was made for a very specific reason.

To campare any brass mouthpiece that is currently available to these mouthpiece I would have the following to say.

Tone: Core, no airyness (is that a word?), and centers very easily. Brass mouthpieces always have an airyness to their tone. These mouthpieces are very consistent throughout many octaves, and have a thick sound that still projects

Articulation: Improved in all ranges, no airy attacks, the note starts immediately.

Upper octave: locks in, and is less slippery.

Lower octave: Locks in, and projects!!!

I sincerely believe these mouthpieces offer something you just can't get from any other mouthpiece.

You should try one and see what you think.

If it doesn't live up to your expectations it's guaranteed, so you will only be out a few bucks for shipping

Ivan Giddings
tubastudio@yahoo.com
G&W mouthpieces

[Ivan Giddings]

Hey Ivan, any chance of getting some detailed descriptions of your new mouthpieces. Inner diameter, rim diameter, rim countour, rim shape, throat, backbore, cup shape and depth etc.? Inquiring minds want to know.

There are five different mouthpieces available.

All have a flat rim contour, with a sharp inner rim. Most like a Conn Helleberg

The throat and backbore is completely different from other mouthpieces. We have created something that is smooth, and open to allow the vibration and air to pass through with no obstruction.

Inner diameters are: 1.32, 1.28, 1.25, 1.25 small cup, and 1.2

The depth is different on each of the pervious, but we found the funnel shape to be the best cup for tone, articulation, and playability

We have come up with a new way for rim to flow into cup, and cup to flow into throat and backbore. To look at it you won't notice But it's there!!!

If I say much more I will be giving away the really cool stuff

Ivan Giddings
Tubastudio@yahoo.com
G&W mouthpieces

[Ivan Giddings]

Other than the fact that you do not have to worry about replating, my question is WHY?

Because stainless steel sounds better

And because while I was first starting out, using stainless meant I could shave a little here, take a little there, adjust a bit here and there, and not have to worry about replating, brass poisoning, etc..

During my experimentation, an unexpected thing happened I learned that stainless responds better, sounds better, plays better, feels better, in general is better.

Ivan Giddings
tubastudio@yahoo.com
G&W mouthpieces