A student of mine came over tonight and brought one of his HS band parts with him - Johan De Meij's, "Symphony # 1; Lord of the Rings". The tessitura is high, with most of it in the top of the bass staff and all the way up to F above the staff. The part says "Basses in C" and it does say , in script, below that, "8va Basso Sempre". So, I told him the part is supposed to be played down an octave, but his band teacher claims that the part is supposed to be played where written and that some other teacher wrote in the script about the 8va basso. I can't imagine a tuba section playing this part. It would be difficult enough for one very good tuba player. My only other thought would be that in the Netherlands, the part is intended to be played by a french tuba in C.
Have any of you encountered this piece and what have you done about the range? Thanks!
De Meij's, Lord of the Rings
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Bill Troiano
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Chuck(G)
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The C parts that I've seen for this have "sempre ottava bassa" written (by the author) on them. My guess is that they were scored by someone for string bass.
However--get both the Eb and Bb bass (BC or TC) parts and use them as study guides if you want to use the C bass parts--they're not exactly the same!
I'm not admitting to it, but I just might have written out a non-transposed tuba part for this thing. PM me if you want.
However--get both the Eb and Bb bass (BC or TC) parts and use them as study guides if you want to use the C bass parts--they're not exactly the same!
I'm not admitting to it, but I just might have written out a non-transposed tuba part for this thing. PM me if you want.
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Doug@GT
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TubaTodd
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Hi Bill,
I remember doing that piece with SCMEA AllCounty and then again in college. What a great wind ensemble piece!!! The information I was told is that de Meji was a trombonist and wrote trombone literature. For some reason when he wrote the tuba part he wrote it as if he was writing for trombone. So I've always performed it an octave below what is written. It makes the most sense accoustically, musicially and balance-wise for the part to be played an octave lower. Once again, your student is in for a treat. The openning bars with the french horns always makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I may try and convince "my" conductor to do this piece in the near future.
I remember doing that piece with SCMEA AllCounty and then again in college. What a great wind ensemble piece!!! The information I was told is that de Meji was a trombonist and wrote trombone literature. For some reason when he wrote the tuba part he wrote it as if he was writing for trombone. So I've always performed it an octave below what is written. It makes the most sense accoustically, musicially and balance-wise for the part to be played an octave lower. Once again, your student is in for a treat. The openning bars with the french horns always makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I may try and convince "my" conductor to do this piece in the near future.
Todd Morgan
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imperialbari
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I’m not the greatest admirer of the high speed printers of the Dutch and Swiss band edition companies.
Most of the output is performance ready for the shredder.
Especially the Dutch companies attempt to make editions adapted, at the same time, for at least these various band traditions:
the Dutch/Flemish (in the Netherlands and Belgium - there are ALTERNATIVE sets of parts for F horns and Eb alto horns, yet some bands employ both sections simultaneously)
the French (in France and Belgium, not very different but for the instrument nomenclatura from the above one - both traditions use transposed bass clef parts, something seen nowhere else in the band world, even if it is known from the orchestra, especially in low horn parts)
the German (where the combination of the oval Bb Tenorhörner and Baritöne also is known in the Eastern and Northern European countries)
the American (which has not the distinction in sizes in the baritone section, but where the baritone parts may occur as well in bass clef concert as in Bb treble clef)
the British (as well the distinctly regulated brass bands as the equally regulated military bands with their unique use of cornets and no trumpets)
the traditions of the more southern Latin countries on more continents (having their each their own national variants - the best Spanish wind bands employ noticeably sized sections of cellos and double basses)
These one-for-all editions open up for a lot of confusion.
Rooted in the nomenclatura of Adolphe Sax the bass (Saxhorn basse en Si bemol) is, what we today would call a euphonium. The Eb tuba was/is called Saxhorn contrebasse en Mi bemol).
The interpretation of the part inducing this thread being a string bass part may be true.
But my section mate, Ove Juhl, was the local band librarian. Ove was not an educated musician, so he often asked me to come around and spend late night hours in his kitchen. We then worked our way through the garbage of Swiss and Dutch origins.
I then sorted the parts. Ove marked them in Danish and entered them in the library lists.
From that experience I would say, that the part in question very well could be a euphonium part, where the "in C" indicates, that it is a part meant for bands in countries not using transposed bass clef parts. In that case it should be played on a euphonium, where the range would pose no challenge.
Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre
PS: Ove was a very reliable, if not exactly elegant, tuba player representing the older Danish marching band style. In promoting his love for the folksy band music he displayed an unbelievable energy also on the managerial levels. We ran a band together. When I had come up with an idea on the phone, he phoned me back two hours later: I’ve been downtown. Problem has been solved.
Ove was almost 20 years older than I, but he continued band playing, after I had to retire.
Ove died on December 26th at the age of 77. Not really a sad death, as dementia and other ailments had taken the fun out of the last period of his life.
But while he was among us, he more than filled his functions.
Most of the output is performance ready for the shredder.
Especially the Dutch companies attempt to make editions adapted, at the same time, for at least these various band traditions:
the Dutch/Flemish (in the Netherlands and Belgium - there are ALTERNATIVE sets of parts for F horns and Eb alto horns, yet some bands employ both sections simultaneously)
the French (in France and Belgium, not very different but for the instrument nomenclatura from the above one - both traditions use transposed bass clef parts, something seen nowhere else in the band world, even if it is known from the orchestra, especially in low horn parts)
the German (where the combination of the oval Bb Tenorhörner and Baritöne also is known in the Eastern and Northern European countries)
the American (which has not the distinction in sizes in the baritone section, but where the baritone parts may occur as well in bass clef concert as in Bb treble clef)
the British (as well the distinctly regulated brass bands as the equally regulated military bands with their unique use of cornets and no trumpets)
the traditions of the more southern Latin countries on more continents (having their each their own national variants - the best Spanish wind bands employ noticeably sized sections of cellos and double basses)
These one-for-all editions open up for a lot of confusion.
Rooted in the nomenclatura of Adolphe Sax the bass (Saxhorn basse en Si bemol) is, what we today would call a euphonium. The Eb tuba was/is called Saxhorn contrebasse en Mi bemol).
The interpretation of the part inducing this thread being a string bass part may be true.
But my section mate, Ove Juhl, was the local band librarian. Ove was not an educated musician, so he often asked me to come around and spend late night hours in his kitchen. We then worked our way through the garbage of Swiss and Dutch origins.
I then sorted the parts. Ove marked them in Danish and entered them in the library lists.
From that experience I would say, that the part in question very well could be a euphonium part, where the "in C" indicates, that it is a part meant for bands in countries not using transposed bass clef parts. In that case it should be played on a euphonium, where the range would pose no challenge.
Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre
PS: Ove was a very reliable, if not exactly elegant, tuba player representing the older Danish marching band style. In promoting his love for the folksy band music he displayed an unbelievable energy also on the managerial levels. We ran a band together. When I had come up with an idea on the phone, he phoned me back two hours later: I’ve been downtown. Problem has been solved.
Ove was almost 20 years older than I, but he continued band playing, after I had to retire.
Ove died on December 26th at the age of 77. Not really a sad death, as dementia and other ailments had taken the fun out of the last period of his life.
But while he was among us, he more than filled his functions.
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Art Hovey
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I have played it several times with the CT Symphonic Band. Your student is lucky that he got the C-bass part, which just has to come down an octave (as in the printed instructions) and not the transposed-bass-clef or treble parts. Aside from that nonsense it's a great piece. One of the sections has a soprano sax solo that calls for some chops.
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corbasse
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Re: De Meij's, Lord of the Rings
Bill Troiano wrote:A student of mine came over tonight and brought one of his HS band parts with him - Johan De Meij's, "Symphony # 1; Lord of the Rings". The tessitura is high, with most of it in the top of the bass staff and all the way up to F above the staff. The part says "Basses in C" and it does say , in script, below that, "8va Basso Sempre". So, I told him the part is supposed to be played down an octave, but his band teacher claims that the part is supposed to be played where written and that some other teacher wrote in the script about the 8va basso. I can't imagine a tuba section playing this part. It would be difficult enough for one very good tuba player. My only other thought would be that in the Netherlands, the part is intended to be played by a french tuba in C.
Have any of you encountered this piece and what have you done about the range? Thanks!
You're definitely supposed to play it down an octave.
In The Netherlands, BBb tuba band parts are written transposed in bass clef. (9th higher than sounding) You invariably spend 99% of your time between sounding low E(flat) and fourth line F.
It seems you have a part that was not properly transposed to concert pitch and they wrote in 8va basso instead of fixing it.
As the name suggests, French tubas were only used in France
(As credentials: I'm listed as living in Belgium, but I am Dutch
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Bill Troiano
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