Tubas in jazz ensemble

[Shockwave]

The crappy midi brass sounds on my computer were driving me nuts, so yesterday I got some instruments out and sampled them to make soundfonts. I wanted a big band sound, but I don't play sax, so I used flugelhorn, baritone horn, and bass tuba in place of alto, tenor, and baritone saxophones. It's an interesting sound, and of course would be better with real instruments, but midi gives a taste. Soundfonts are old technology compared to gigastudio sounds, but require very little work to make. The difficult part is actually playing notes that work for samples.

Maybe at the next tuba conference the big band could have tubas instead of saxophones on jazz night.


Thad Jones tune: Little-Pixie

Take 6 tune: Get-Away-Jordan

Wolpe big band tune: Cherokee

-Eric

[LoyalTubist]

Have you ever been to a tuba conference? I went to a couple of the first national/international tuba symposia in the 1970s and there was never any question in my mind what a tuba could do in jazz.

Join ITEA. http://www.iteaonline.org/

If you don't know what's going on in the tuba world, you will know with your first issue of the ITEA Journal.

Do you know the following players?
Bill Barber
Red Lehr
Jim Self
Red Callender

There are many more jazz tuba players. Red Callender is no longer with us. Bill Barber was one of the first tuba players to play jazz as a melodic instrument, not a rhythmic one.

Prior to the invention of the electronic microphone, tubas were the standard bass instrument in popular music. The mechanical box microphones they used back then could not pick up the sound from string bass.

Consequently, tubas were used in unthinkable places. If you listen to 78 rpm records of symphony orchestras made prior to 1928, the string bass parts in the orchestra were either substituted for or accompanied with a tuba player.

The tuba that was used then had a bell that faced forward. The proper term for this instrument was "recording bass," because it was used to play bass parts for recordings.

The recording bass was introduced sometime around 1907. Sometime thereafter sousaphones had the option of a front facing bell. (The first sousaphones had upright bells--known as "raincatchers.") By 1910, most sousaphones on the market had front facing bells (properly, "recording bells").

[Shockwave]

I didnt mean to imply that tuba had never before been used for jazz. I'm really looking for comments on the sound of tubas replacing the saxes in a jazz band, and if anyone had ever heard of it being done. I'd also like to promote the inclusion of the higher pitched members of the tuba family into tuba ensembles.

-Eric

[LoyalTubist]

Huh?


We shouldn't want to replace anyone! We should be proud of who we are: TUBA PLAYERS!

Min Leibrook, who was a phenomenal tuba player who played with Bix Beiderbecke in the 1920s. He also played string bass and, when he knew his days were numbered as a tuba player in popular music, learned sax. For the last decade of his life, he was a bass saxophone player. He ended up drinking himself to death, much like his best friend, Bix.

Wilfred F. "Min" Leibrook (1904-43)

An intesting story about Min: The song "Copenhagen" was named for him. Min had the nasty habit of dipping snuff while playing tuba. It was said that when the spit valves on his sousaphone leaked, the residue emitted resembled Hershey's Syrup.

[tubajoe]

I didnt mean to imply that tuba had never before been used for jazz. I'm really looking for comments on the sound of tubas replacing the saxes in a jazz band, and if anyone had ever heard of it being done. I'd also like to promote the inclusion of the higher pitched members of the tuba family into tuba ensembles.

-Eric

Check out HoJo's Gravity arrangements -- a fair amount of it does resemble sax writing in a big band... very "soli" like in a lot of places. Harmonically it is very tight and the roles are almost the same as a sax section, as well as being a similar 5 parts.
(or it's kinda like a trumpet section I guess, but the principle involved is pretty similar)

As far as higher pitched members... do you mean alto and tenor horns? Lots of British-style brass bands use those in a very sax-like way... and some do ok jazz arrs.

I'm always a fan of "all-brass" jazz ensembles. Some of Wayne Downey's "brass in g" arrangements - especially of the late 1980's are amazing. His modern stuff is still great, but is a bit different in style and approach. 88 is my fav. (Since your handle is Shockwave, I am guessing you are "familiar" with Wayne. )

Also check out JJ Johnson's Brass Orchestra CD. The orchestration is incredible -- and euphs and tubas are used as a complete additional section of the "jazz band".

[LoyalTubist]

Amen, Joe.

[fpoon]

I played electric bass all through high school, and was actually a lot better at it than tuba. When I entered college, I was faced with the decision of going all out on tuba or bass. Problem was, playing opportunities were zilch at my school on electric, and I'm not a super big fan of playing upright, so I went with the tuba.

We got a dedicated jazz teacher, and I was really excited about it, but he had sort of a prejudice against electric bass (and I was sadly out of practice). He offered an improvisation class, and I was initially gonna do it on bass. But seeing how there were like 3 other bassists in there, I figured I'd try it out on tuba. And it has paid dividends. It's awesome to solo as a horn player does, and not as a member of the rhythm section; it gave me freedom I wasn't accustomed to.

I've gotten a chance here and there to sit in with a big band or combo from time to time, and am still in the process of getting a full time Dixieland group together. But yeah, tubas in jazz rock pretty hard. And it's just plain fun. And fun is what its all about.

[TheChiefofStaph]

Some of Wayne Downey's "brass in g" arrangements

Heh... Never heard it referred to like this before! But you're absolutely right - he in fact utilizes a ton of "sax soli" pieces from original pieces and rescores them for "brass in g."