Buffet bought Besson

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:15 am

Chuck(G) wrote: Doesn't Fodens use Courtois exclusively? I've heard that the 181 is a very nice horn, but I don't know a thing about the 182 BBb.

Er, EEb's yes, BBb's no. For very good reason.

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:19 am

Jonathantuba wrote:
AndyCat wrote: Er, EEb's yes, BBb's no. For very good reason.
Andy,
I know the Courtois BBb are a smaller wrap than the Besson which I guess might make them more stuffy - is that the "good reason"?

Just not very nice to play IMHO. Tuning issues, and nowhere near the sound of other comparable instruments. I'm pretty sure they never really used the BBb's, even when sponsored by Courtois. I certainly never played one there at that time, and the BBb's they have had a while are definitely not Courtois . But the EEb players liked the Courtois and I think they still use them, or Phil and Toby did til last year. Don't know about the current incumbents

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:32 am

What I have heard from the Courtois Eb 3+1 comper was dry and even smaller in sound than the Besson 982.

Probably not so bad for brass band, when the Eb and BBb basses play in octaves.

My preference for the Besson 981 has been kept no secret, but even if I have played the 981 in brass band, I am not entirely convinced, that it is an ideal brass band tuba.

It sound is too big and orchestral and out-powers most compensating BBbâ€™s and euphoniums for that matter. It even forces the bass trombone to play more aggressively than desirable.

The 981 easily fills the role of a 4/4 CC tuba, even if the range right above the pedal takes some hard work to control perfectly in matters of louder dynamics.

My personal 981 will last my time out. Yet I would be sad, if the 981 as a very well conceived model fell victim to the business manoeuvres going on.

When Meinl-Weston took over B&S, they simplified some designs to save money. I am not entirely convinced, that Joe S has forgiven them tinkering with the conical progression through the valve block of the 4+2RV F Symphonie model. But then he has one of the old ones, and if anybody would be able to maintain that instrument then Joe. No tinkering, village or urban.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:32 am

AndyCat wrote:
Just not very nice to play IMHO. Tuning issues, and nowhere near the sound of other comparable instruments. I'm pretty sure they never really used the BBb's, even when sponsored by Courtois. I certainly never played one there at that time, and the BBb's they have had a while are definitely not Courtois . But the EEb players liked the Courtois and I think they still use them, or Phil and Toby did til last year. Don't know about the current incumbents

Soon see if I'm right, doing this Saturday night with them at the RNCM festival of brass with Ian Bousfield. I'll defo be playing my trusty 992 tho!

NickJones · Post by **NickJones** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:04 am

At Beaumaris we play on 994 Bb's quite old but a quality instrument , great sounding ( used to play on a 992 at Point of Ayr) , the Eb's we use a 981 and 982 ( concert model - 981 mouthpipe but with Marching rings - made on request from Besson in 2001) , balance is always good..good foundation to the band

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:25 pm

Jonathantuba wrote:As Courtois and Besson are now in the same group, .......

Steinway bought United Musical Instruments, Selmer, and G. Leblanc. Consenquently, tubas under the following brand names are no longer competitors:

King
Conn
Vincent Bach
Holton

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:40 pm

And as I posted in another thread, Bach piston low brass are probably subcontracted to Yamaha, (Hmm, I wonder if Holton is as well?) and the whole thing has become a cyborg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

Also gone from the panoply, assimilated by the cyborg: Buescher, Martin, Bundy, Cleveland by way of King, Benge barely holding on, as the cyborg redirected King's efforts at keeping the brand separate.

The real Olds and Reynolds have gone. York really never made it out of the depression.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:24 am

LoyalTubist wrote:Steinway bought United Musical Instruments, Selmer, and G. Leblanc.

Well, yes and no. Henri Selmer Paris is still very much NOT a part of Steinway/UMI. You just don't see many of their brasswinds here:

http://www.selmer.fr/html/english/sommaire/someng.htm

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:25 am

Thankfully.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:37 am

Just give it time....

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:42 am

No. Ford will buy them all.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:42 am

LoyalTubist wrote:Thankfully.

If you mean not seeing Selmer brasswinds here in the US, you do them a disservice. I believe that Guy Touvron plays a Selmer as his main ax and he sounds pretty darned awesome on it.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:44 am

I didn't refer to the brass end of it, but the woodwind end of it. I wasn't being flippant.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:24 am

I believe the "thankfully" was referring to being thankful that Henri Selmer Paris had not been assimilated into the cyborg.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:05 am

Well... some time has passed since Buffet-Crampon took over Besson. There is some hope that the parts process is finally beginning to take shape. I only have to wait a month for springs now!

Someone commented earlier about the possibility of getting parts for London-built Bessons now. Don't bet on it. Your best chance is to contact some of the established dealers and repairmen the UK. Apparently Sterling/York has some of the old Besson (London) tooling.

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Buffet bought Besson

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