flat horn

[MaryAnn]

If it was a sudden change, which is what it sounds like....she has to go back to "just before" the change and figure out what happened with the horn. Switched valves sounds plausible to me.....could be, or something else similar. Did anyone have opportunity to play a trick on her? Would anyone do that? Switch parts with another euphonium whose parts happen to fit hers? Blockage in the receiver that keeps the mouthpiece from going all the way in?

MA

[Chris Smith]

everyone sides you willie

[Dean E]

[windshieldbug]

I had no intention of throwing this actually valuable thread off-track, but since I apparently have,

<img src="http://www.travelerstuba.com/travelersclub021019.jpg" width="250">

[andrew the tuba player]

congradulations you've just sent me into spiraling depression...kinda like the 20J........but not quite as bad.

[Dean E]

I have a puzzling question for you all (at least it is for me)...

I have a student whose euphonium (Yamaha compensating... not sure what model) is REALLY flat!! She is a very good player (All-State musician) and in the middle of a rehearsal noticed that all of a sudden her horn was really flat. I played it last night at her lesson and sure enough, it was REALLY out of tune. I was playing a tuning Bb (just above the staff) and it was 30 cents flat (main tuning slide was all the way pushed in). I played all the way up a high Bb and all the way down to a pedal Bb and it was consistently flat (except for a few notes, which were extremely sharp). The ONLY note that was in tune (with the slide pushed all the way in) was a high Bb.
. . . .
So... does anyone have any suggestions?

That's a puzzle for sure. I can only think of some remote things to rule out:

1. Valve slides may have been switched. Possible, but not likely. There would be visible differences.

2. Double check the tuner for calibration at A=440. It's possible to accidentally turn on and reset some tuners while in a carry bag.

3. An object may be wedged in the smaller tubing. I bought a used horn which had a plastic bottle of valve oil wedged in the tubing. Flushing with water didn't come close to doing the trick. It took days to free it up.

Good luck with your investigation.

[andrew the tuba player]

This happened to my 20J come to think of it. It had a bag full of red markers took me days to get the stane out of the tub. But, luckily it just fell out. So, you may check this. I've also seen this with
a trumpet and a trombone .
Also, does your Euphonium have plastic valve guides? Our Holton does and they can easily be rotated when oiling the valves. this has happpened to both our euphonium and marching baritone and a tuba at band camp. It can rotate enough that the horn willl no longer play. So, just something to check.

[jhedrick]

Stop Stop - Oh the tubanity!! I can't bear the carnage!

Were either of those horns "teacher approved"?

Okay, I'm just curious. What in the world is in your avatar?

Why, that's the Flying Spaghetti Monster see:http://www.venganza.org/

Make sure to read why the lack of pirates is causing global warming.

[iiipopes]

Yes, I'd pull all the slides and valves and start running a "snake" through to see what got put in it. From your initial post it appears the horn may not have always played flat.

Another item that might cause it to play flat is switched valves, not just slides. The Besson 2-20 trumpet I picked up on eBay for $77 including shipping, original case, original mouthpiece, original lyre and leather valve block wrap played badly when I first got it out of the case. The first thing I checked was the valves, and sure enough, #s 2 & 3 were reversed. One ding rubbed out of the bell and one ding smoothed out of the leadpipe, and flipping the tuning slide (it is one of the infamous ones where the water key was installed over an antinode), and now it plays better than most "mid-line" trumpets, and is perfect for what I need: occasionally helping out with 2nd or 3rd parts in a concert band setting, or bugling for my son's cub scout pack.

The point of it all is that even though I am not a Yamaha fan by any means, the euph is probably built better than my trumpet, so should play with good tone and intonation, especially for your student.

[Conn 2J CC]

EuphoniumPlayer87 - Thanks for bringing up valve alignment in regards to this topic. My 11 year old son plays an old 3 pistons in front Reynolds Emperor Euphonium we bought for him. I've really enjoyed teaching how to play it. However, he's had some stuffy tone and bad intonation issues with the horn, mostly from low Bb down to G. I was writing most of this off as typical beginners problems to be overcome with time. That, and it's not the greatest horn out there, especially for it's age (1968). Your reminder got me to look at his horn. Sure enough, all 3 valves weren't traveling far enough down or far enough back up for them to be aligned properly with the ports in their casings.

[J.c. Sherman]

There are a few things which could cause this:

Yamaha plastic valve guides can be realigned by mistake to an angle 45 degrees off. It happens so often to school horns it's rediculous.

Stuff in the case could have lodged in the horn (already mentioned.

Worn valve guide allowing the valve to float in circles...

Switching valves 1 & 3, or 2 & 4 in the opposite valve casings. Other combos wouldn't work at all.

$%@#ing dirty leadpipe, with grelck having worked itself loose and then.... you get the idea. Tuba Yogurt bad!

a flattened - dented - first or second bow. It can reach a point if the dents are long enough that it can throw everything off.

Several other things - organisms. weird technique on a smaller horn... etc...

J.c.

[Paul Scott]

Several years ago I encountered a student with a baritone, (not a euph., in this case!) that played very strangely. Certain notes in the overtone series simply wouldn't sound at all while others were fine. After quite a bit of snaking the offending object came out: a rubber "superball" that had been wedged in the main bugle. How ANY notes were possible with this thing in it I don't know, but it played a lot better when it was removed!

[TubaRay]

a rubber "superball" that had been wedged in the main bugle...... it played a lot better when it was removed!

One would hope so.

[iiipopes]

A friend of mine who was a music ed major told me this anecdote that actually happened in the late 70's. One of his buddies was also a music ed major, with trumpet his primary instrument, and had a very fine Bach large bore (I don't recall which bell). He complained to his professor he was having trouble with some flexibility aspects, and that it felt "stuffy." After the professor tried it and agreed, he took the mouthpiece and main tuning slide off. You literally could not see inside from one end to the other of the leadpipe, all the way from receiver to tuning slide. The band office at the time was in a converted old house, so they took it to what used to be the kitchen, soaked it in the sink, and ran water through the leadpipe until all the gunk finally came out.

Oh, boy did it play better!