Holst - Jupiter

[Anterux]

I've always been told that pedal notes start at FF for BBb and G for CC horns.

I can accept that. But doesn't make sence to me.

Trumpets also use that way of classifying pedal tones. but even with trumpets I dont agree. What is the use?

On the other hand, I think we may be dealing with a traditionaly way of classifying those notes as pedal notes.
when tubas had just 3 valves... maybe...

In Trombones and Euphoniums (and in my point of view with all brass), pedal is from foundamental to below. these notes are realy different in various ways.

but please tell me because I want to undersatand:

on a CC tuba why from GG? why not from FF# or AAb?
it makes more sence to me from the foudamental (the first C of piano in case of CC tuba)

[Matt G]

Pedal tones are vague.

Here is why there is confusion.

The reference to "pedal" is from the organ. Most organs "pedal" octave is from the C below the staff to the open fundamental on a CC tuba. If we could all remember our notation correctly or even if the notaton was a little better standardized, this would not be an issue (C, CC, CCC, etc.). I myself can't remember it.

Anyhow, the point is moot. In this case, all of the notes fall in the lower end of the first harmonic, or second partial, register of the tuba, unless the player has a CC tuba, upon which it crosses into the fundamental, or first partial register on the open bugle. Either way, these are low notes and would be best replicated in the short term by having the notes played up one octave and having one tuba player play the 5th above these notes to replicate the sound of these low register notes. Us humans and our tubas really only hear and produce harmonics in this range not the actual fundamental tone of the pitch.

[Rick Denney]

It's been awhile since I've seen the Boosey band arrangement, but I do recall being baffled by it and wondering if Holst really did the arranging or some unnamed minion did.

I'll bet that he wrote it with the intention of it being played using false tones. Even on a three-valve BBb instrument, if it has a good false-tone register, the passage is playable.

Of course, the four-valve instruments used at the time of this arrangement (and certainly intended in something published by Boosey) are compensated, making these notes reachable even without false tones.

I absolutely agree that they should beplayed an octave up. There is no music in the other instruments within that octave, and very few players can make it sound good as written. The orchestral music does not go that low, though this arrangement may be attempting to replace the color unavailable in a wind band by explanding the pitch range downward.

To play them in fifths to create the difference tone, intonation must be perfect. The difference tone is quite sensitive to errors (twice as sensitive as with a single tone).

Rick "who thinks the part needs power more than depth" Denney