BBb student now ... CC later???

[hurricane_harry]

buy a good CC, not that big a switch

[iiipopes]

I had six years of piano and started on trumpet before I switched to tuba, so this is only my view: it doesn't matter. You will be at the mercy of your tuba instructor regardless. Rick Denny in another thread goes on at length with some myth busting in this regard, and I had to eat a little crow. If I find the thread, I'll post it.

[Water Music]

I would make the switch. Not that hard, and basically every college professor of Tuba plays on a CC and an F or/and an Eb.

I made the switch, and I couldn't be happier on a CC than the BBb.

[iiipopes]

A guy with a 5/4 Kalison CC just joined the community band I play in. I'm glad to have both in band, because we can check each other on tuning. For example, I know on a BBb G is sharp using 12, but none of the other BBb tubists will lip or pull, and I have to use 12 as well so the section doesn't wobble. But playing with the CC, his G is open, and I can use 3 alone and be in perfect tune as my Besson was designed to do. Likewise, he can check his F and Bb against me, and since both our horns have good intonation, octaves and fifths to really cement the foundation are very pleasurable to play.

[ArnoldGottlieb]

I am currently a BBb tubist. I like it, but is CC the way to go in light of an eventual music education career.

Chops

Why play CC unless you want to? There are plenty of great BBb tuba's on the market now, and for music ed you'll be teaching kids brass instruments in Bb anyway. Why make things harder on yourself? Hopefully that answered the question that you were asking.
Good Luck.
Peace.
ASG

[ArnoldGottlieb]

every college professor of Tuba plays on a CC and an F or/and an Eb.

If you want to be a good tubist you must have a CC or BBb and a F or Eb tuba.

Ugh..... As my friends know, there are few things that annoy me quite so much as broad, sweeping statements like these.

First, certainly not EVERY college professor of tuba plays on CC, F or Eb. James Jenkins is one who comes to mind, not to mention all of the cats living/teaching in Germany/Austria.

Man, I was so with you until you made that broad, sweeping (and totally incorrect) statement about all of the cats living/teaching in Germany/Austria.


Peace.
ASG

[windshieldbug]

Music Ed? Forget key, go for SOUND. Any tuba prof that's worth anything can teach any key horn.

You're not a performance major; concentrate on learning to *teach* well. Sound will allow you to add something to the ensembles you play in, not key. If you play well, add something, and can eventually convey that to your students, so much the better.

[quinterbourne]

I am currently a BBb tubist. I like it, but is CC the way to go in light of an eventual music education career.

Chops

Why play CC unless you want to? There are plenty of great BBb tuba's on the market now, and for music ed you'll be teaching kids brass instruments in Bb anyway. Why make things harder on yourself? Hopefully that answered the question that you were asking.
Good Luck.
Peace.
ASG

I agree, if you plan on teaching, a BBb tuba is the way to go. That's what your kids will be learning. However, if you plan on teaching at the college/university level, then CC is probably the way to go.

Besides teaching, what are your other aspirations? Do you plan on becoming a really good player? Do you plan on playing in decent orchestras and brass quintets? If so, then maybe a CC would be better for you. If you like playing in bands, then BBb is the better choice. But, these are my opinions.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I don't think that there is much validity to the rationale that if you are a teacher, that Bb is better "because that's what the kids will be playing".

If you are not flexible enough to deal with different fingerings, on different instruments, I don't think you should be teaching instrumental music. Additionally, if the kids are looking at YOUR fingers in order to play the music correctly, there are much greater problems afoot.

[Water Music]

I said 2 things that will redeem my first post:

I said BASICALLY all Professors of Tuba tache on a CC, not all.

Basically, you know, it means mostly all, but not every single one does.


And I said they play on the Contrabass and an F and/or Eb

When one quotes another, they shouldn't digress to check the wording, because they could have their words shoved back in their *** by someone who HATES TO BE CRITICIZED ON HIS COMMENTS!

I'm done now.

[quinterbourne]

In my experience, at my university - trumpet players in performance own BBb and C trumpets, while those in education just own Bb trumpets.

Also, tuba players in performance usually have CC tubas while those in, usually anything else, play on BBb tubas.

There's nothing wrong with switching to CC if you're going into music education. I am in performance, playing on a CC... but planning on teaching highschool instrumental music.

Now that I am playing on a CC tuba, it does make playing baritone/euphonium, trumpet and trombone a bit more difficult. I didn't say it's impossible to go into music education playing on a CC tuba. However, it is easier to know/teach Bb trumpet, trombone, baritone/euphonium (and tuba) if BBb tuba is your primary instrument (as oppsed to CC tuba).

[windshieldbug]

someone who HATES TO BE CRITICIZED ON HIS COMMENTS!

It'sa too late to appologize! ...

[quinterbourne]

I said 2 things that will redeem my first post:

I said BASICALLY all Professors of Tuba tache on a CC, not all.

Basically, you know, it means mostly all, but not every single one does.


And I said they play on the Contrabass and an F and/or Eb

When one quotes another, they shouldn't digress to check the wording, because they could have their words shoved back in their *** by someone who HATES TO BE CRITICIZED ON HIS COMMENTS!

I'm done now.

I agree that quite often people don't really read your/our posts, they interpret them in such a way to make their argument or advance their position. I do agree that basically all tuba professors (ie university/college teachers) play on a CC tuba as well as an Eb or F tuba. Yeah, such may not be true in Germany, but we don't live in Germany! I'd hate to worry about giving general opinions that have apply to every square inch of this planet.

[tubeast]

Quite a few wise comments here.
Especially the ones commenting a music ed´s flexibility in fingering.
How do you finger a written C# in a french horn part in D on a 3+1 Bb baritone ?
Now answer a similar question by a clarinet player who insists bringing his/her own A clarinet to class. Both of your answers to those questions will not be influenced by your choice of horn.

And to those planning to teach tuba in the future:
What exactly will you teach ? Playing tuba or playing CC tuba ?
I personally hope it´s the former. After all, you won´t have to teach any of your students how to finger any note. Those that plan to go for pro tuba playing MUST already know how to play an F#3 before auditioning for college.
You´ll hopefully pass on education as to how to be a professional musician. How to define and fulfill your role in an ensemble. How to turn all those lines and dots into music. In what way the ophicleide and its sound characteristics may influence a modern tubist´s approach to certain pieces.
(Insert all kinds of things not related to the pitch of your student´s horn here)

The really BIG named tuba professors (Bill Bell, A.Jacobs, R.Bobo, many more) attract(ed) established professionals from all over the world to go study with them. Regardless of the very INSTRUMENT they played. (recorder ? voice ? ´Chello? trumpet?)
Surely these brought whatever horn their home tradition demanded.
And I dare bet something useful was taken back home by all of them in exchange for the $$$ these teachers may have received.

[Bill Troiano]

I've just finished making the audition and college visitation rounds for my son. He auditioned on a Jupiter 582 BBb (great horn-Jason Whitacker's old axe) and was accepted everywhere he applied and auditioned. Do you need a CC? No! However, almost all of the profs are playing CC's and almost all of their students are playing CC's too. I need to buy another tuba like I need another hole in my head. However, I want my son to fit in with the rest, so I'm buying him a CC. Or, I'll give him my 52J and I'll buy a new horn for myself! Nyuk, nyuk!

[Lew]

I am currently a BBb tubist. I like it, but is CC the way to go in light of an eventual music education career.

Chops

Why play CC unless you want to? There are plenty of great BBb tuba's on the market now, and for music ed you'll be teaching kids brass instruments in Bb anyway. Why make things harder on yourself? Hopefully that answered the question that you were asking.
Good Luck.
Peace.
ASG

I agree, if you plan on teaching, a BBb tuba is the way to go. That's what your kids will be learning. However, if you plan on teaching at the college/university level, then CC is probably the way to go.

Besides teaching, what are your other aspirations? Do you plan on becoming a really good player? Do you plan on playing in decent orchestras and brass quintets? If so, then maybe a CC would be better for you. If you like playing in bands, then BBb is the better choice. But, these are my opinions.

I will third that opinion. Save a couple of grand and buy a King 2341, which is a BBb Conn 56J without the 5th valve, unless you plan to teach at the college level or do a lot of orchestral playing. I do think that as a music ed major you should know how to play a tuba in any key, just as you will have to know how to play every instrument at some level, you just won't be as proficient in some as in others.

[hurricane_harry]

In my experience, at my university - trumpet players in performance own BBb and C trumpets, while those in education just own Bb trumpets.

Also, tuba players in performance usually have CC tubas while those in, usually anything else, play on BBb tubas.

There's nothing wrong with switching to CC if you're going into music education. I am in performance, playing on a CC... but planning on teaching highschool instrumental music.

Now that I am playing on a CC tuba, it does make playing baritone/euphonium, trumpet and trombone a bit more difficult. I didn't say it's impossible to go into music education playing on a CC tuba. However, it is easier to know/teach Bb trumpet, trombone, baritone/euphonium (and tuba) if BBb tuba is your primary instrument (as oppsed to CC tuba).

maybe its because i played baritone and trombone before i made the CC switch. if your gonna be a music ed major (as am i) you should be proficent on any on these horns, regardless of key. i choose my horn because it was by far the best sounding horn at dillon music in my price range. as for teaching BBb, i just concinced my band director to buy a used CC horn, probobly the best thing he could do for future students. if your gonna be the band director of your high school, when new tubas are being purchased, you ussually make the decision. besides, playing BBb is like riding a bike, you never forget.

Harry "who thinks you don't have trouble walking after learning to skip" Phillips

[LoyalTubist]

I think for American amateurs, and even for pros to some extent, the BB-flat/C question is akin to PC versus Mac. They are different but they will both get the job done--except that each of the two tubas can do what the other one does, whereas it can't be said about the computers. The tubas read the same music and have the same basic range. PCs use PC software and Macs use Macintosh software.

[Matt G]

In another thread in the not-too-distant past, I not only argued that music EDUCATION majors do not necessarily need musical PERFORMANCE degree oriented instruments (unless - AS A SIDELINE - they simply "want" them), and they also do not need to be trying to pretend (in their four years as undergraduate students) and prepare as though they were pursuing "PERFORMANCE" degrees while concentrating on ONE instrument. Rather, they were (in reality - even though the so called "Ed" degree curriculum might be all twisted around sideways towards "performance" - which is, undoubtedly, the main problem) pursuing a degree that would instruct/enlighten them as to how to TEACH others to play MANY TYPES of instruments.

These are, possibly/arguably, the main reasons why many young band directors enter the field so ill-prepared: 1/ Many of their degree curricula had only touched the surface regarding the techniques of being an instrumental music educator (i.e. ended up being "performance lite" degrees) and 2/ Some of these young people end up with built-in chips on their shoulders because they suddenly find themselves babysitting (and/or watching their backs - in some of the "tougher" schools) while trying to teach middle school band... ...instead of (their unspoken fantasy) being a "symphony star" (a huge degree program "bait-and-switch" - referred to above, if you will).

I got FAR more flames and heated discussion from those statements in that past thread as one might EVER expect to garner from some much more generally based politico-religious (i.e. "typical" flame fodder) statements, because (apparently) the VAST majority of "Ed" majors LIKE the "symphony star / bait-and-switch" fantasy that is built into music education degrees in the U.S.

bloke "I'm not pursuing the (still strongly adhered to) argument again...Talk amongst yourselves..."

With this added...

Most good tuba teachers, given a week at most, should be able to play CC, BBb, Eb or F in a public performance with no big hangups. We expect this out of an average professional trumpet play and especially of trumpet professors.

Music Ed majors should have more than one string, one woodwind, one brass, and one vocal course. Considering that each course consists of about 45 hours of actual class time, I think that students could handle a few more. Too much of their time is dedicated to playing in groups and not learning to teach. I myself didn't actually start and "education" stuff until my third year.

How about if instead of 4 years of lessons, the student must be required to pass a certain playing ability level, and then, be enrolled in a seminar in which they are led in supervised lessons of multiple instruments?

Anywho, on topic. Stick with BBb. If the school has a decent one, play for free and put some money away so that whne you graduate you can buy your own to do whatever you want after you graduate.

Oh, yeah, and I am a hipocrite on this, I was a "perfomance lite" major, who played and owned BBb's, CC's and and F while in school. Oh and Bass trombone, tenor trombone and Euph, too...

[windshieldbug]

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