so.. I got a trombone.

[ThomasDodd]

but seriously, if you're going to help me and complain.. why do it? i'll help somebody[if they're not disrespect] in most ways i can. and if its tough, i wont complain about it. but if you dislike me, or complain about helping a kid trying to have fun with instruments, and trying to become a

If you feeling get hurt that easily, it's a good thing you were not around for the Politics section earlier.

I do wish Sean had kept the archives available to browse...

[Matt G]

When I ask someone for help, I thank them. Any more than that is unneccessary. If they complain about helping, that's on them. If you got what you were looking for, a thank you is a nice way to show appreciation.

and did i not thank them? please tell me i didnt so i can prove you wrong.

My dad can beat up your dad!

[TubaRay]

All this hoopla raises the question as to whether one was born obnoxious, or have they worked extremely hard to perfect that quality.

For my part, I have been posting on TubeNet for about three years, now. From my experience, when one asks for information, they will often receive MORE than they really wanted in the first place. It seems quite simple to just sort through it all and find what is useful. I don't believe it is necessary to try to insult those who are simply responding to the request. Most folks will show some civility and gratitude. Sure, anything you post is done so with the risk of being "flamed." I know I have been. The majority of the folks on TubeNet are decent folks, however, people one could be happy to call "friend." To me it is disappointing to hear from those who simply don't care to fit in. Sometimes it is not necessary to share ALL of one's feelings with everyone else. If I were to do this, I might have a few comments about young people which not everyone would appreciate.

[ThomasDodd]

im tired of bloke's constant bickering about little stuff. its annoying. a older man bickering... come on?

But that's bloke(decided not to use his name, for fear of confusing you).
Deal with it. We all do.
Quite often it's funny, if you can get past the brubt ness.
We need the curmudgon <sp?> around to keep us in check.

Something you'll learn in time I guess.

It not nice to come in, and start dissing long time members. Oh, and rember this group started a long time ago. Well before March 2004.

[Matt G]

I have sent an email or private message to "Bloke" in the past.

He has always been courteous and forthcoming with information. I might not see eye to eye with all of his ideas, but he is speaking from his own reference and life experience, not vicarious information.

The problem is when someone comes on the board and is unable to articulate clearly a question for whatever reason (age, experience, language barrier, netiquitte etc.) that they will get a lot of information and that allows the parameters for discussion to be set so loosely that the topic will drift offcourse quickly.

I have been posting on this board since it was hosted at IU (1995 or 1996ish). I myself have learned a lot of things about how discussions evolved. Things I have learned:

-Subject of the post must pertain directly to the post content.
-Questions must be specific and easily understood.
-For postings to be regarded in the best manner you should strive to use proper spelling and grammar. This isn't to be picky, it is just the structure of the English Language. You wouldn't want to try to play music with no clef and only four lines.
-Be responsible for your post. Check on it often and thank those who have answered your questions publicly. If it has drifted off topic, rephrase your question or add more specifics. This helps you in your quest for knowledge and insults nobody.
-Flaming doesn't work.
-Opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one, and they all potentially stink.
-You must develop your own poop-filter.
-There is always a better performer than you at anything. Tuba, Math, Cartwheels, NosePicking, etc. They might well be lurking at any time.
-Insults you fling at people are worthless. You have just wasted your time typing them and they probably knew of your opinion already.
-Free advice is worth exactly what it costs.
-There is always someone else who has been in your shoes before.
-Beware of what you say. Again, lots of folks lurk these pages.
-Don't substitute this forum for real human interaction. Act/Speak/Type in here like you would interact with these people in reality. In other words, don't grow "cyber-cojones".

[ThomasDodd]

On a side note, what's the "i teh tuba" stuff mean?

Judging from other posts, "teh" is supposed to be "the". I do it a lot, but actually take the time to fix it(usually ). Common for us poor typists to get the letters in the wrong order. I do it witt my name (Thoams) all the time (80%+) and have to constantly fix it.

Not using the "shift" key is just general lazyness, but common online nowdays.

[MartyNeilan]

My dad can beat up your dad!

Yeah, well my kid can beat up your kid!
<=====


lol Matt!!

[ThomasDodd]

I, on the other hand, have tried hard to become a horse's ***, regardless of political affiliation.

Ditto

[Rick Denney]

...but seriously, if you're going to help me and complain.. why do it?

Several reasons:

1. You might get the point of the complaint and make a decision to change something you are doing (or not, but at least with knowledge of what some others think).

2. We enjoy amusing ourselves with a little good-natured ribbing, especially if it is just a bit witty.

3. We want to see if the new guy can take a little good-natured ribbing.

Rick "hoping you can take a little good-natured ribbing" Denney

[Doug@GT]

That grumpy young teenager didn't have a big plastic box with a fan back then to communicate with people that were 30 or so years different in age.

There's your problem. Plastic just doesn't cut it. Aluminum boxes are the way to go now

On another aside--I actually got to use microfiche the other day...our library was missing a few hard copies of the FCC Record. Good times.

[Mudman]

The grumpy young teenager...well, technically a 12-year-old...got a grumpy 7-day-a-week newspaper route, used the money for grumpy classic guitar lessons, the best grumpy guitar he could afford, and some Charlie Byrd recordings (no sheet music available...' had to "steal" the charts off the records).

Blokoid, now I know why we get along so well--at about the same age I tricked my parents into letting me take a paper route. I told them that another kid was going to be the manager and I would just help out. He told his folks the same thing.

When I was saving up for a Laser (olympic-class sailboat) in Vancouver, I had three paper routes at one time and would sub for other carriers on weekends. My stack of thick weekend papers (that we had to stuff with flyers) was taller than me, and I was tall!

Musically, I am the least of the talented of my friends, even today. Learned trombone by playing nights with Canadian military bands and focused on practicing jazz drumming. To learn drums I would trade in used records for other used records until I had listened to everything I could get my hands on. I would practice for hours and am thankful my parents didn't ever tell me to be quiet.

If only I had the internet back then! On the other hand, easy access to information probably would have taken away the desire to do something worthwhile. Tubenet is a great resource, but I could be practicing NOW instead of chatting

I must say, however, that scouring the TubeNet archives gave me a huge jump in picking up the tuba as a professional double in a short amount of time.

Mudd

[MartyNeilan]

The Internet can be a major time waster. The majority of time I spend online is late at night when I can't make noise and have to stay up with my infant daughter (who does make noise).
However, I have recently found myself spending way too much time online during the day this Christmas break when I am not touring. It will be interesting to see how much time I spend during my several week recovery period after my upcoming surgery when I can't play brass instruments at all.

FWIW, I have learned a lot during the seven or so years I have browsed TubeNet, and I hope I have contributed some knowledge, opinions, humor, and started some interesting discussions.

[Rick Denney]

Playing professionally? It won't happen "someday". Stuff like that happens NOW.

Had the Internet been available when I was in high school, and had my parents been foolish enough to give me unrestricted access to it, I'd have never practiced tuba, I'd have never read the hundreds of books I did read, I'd have never spent hours and days making and presenting photographs, and I'd have never spent the hours I spent learning to design and make things. Those were the things I did because it was the only path to learning stuff, and that was the only imperative I can think of that was actually built into my genes. The Internet is the path of least resistance to learning. It's a great benefit to those of us who have paid some dues, but it's too easy for those who haven't.

This story explains: When I was in architecture school (I switched to engineering as a senior in college because architecture wouldn't let me design stuff that could actually be built), the photography classes required the use of fully manual cameras. That was easy in those days--college students couldn't afford anything better. Last I checked, most photography schools still require it (at least in the beginner classes), even though finding a fully manual camera usually requires digging through the junk pile at the local camera store, or buying something from the former Second World. Why would they do that? Simple: If you know how to do it the hard way, you won't be a slave to doing it the easy way, or to merely watching other people do it.

Rick "in some things, not content to be a specatator" Denney

[ThomasDodd]

photography classes required the use of fully manual cameras. That was easy in those days--college students couldn't afford anything better. Last I checked, most photography schools still require it (at least in the beginner classes), even though finding a fully manual camera usually requires digging through the junk pile at the local camera store, or buying something from the former Second World. Why would they do that? Simple: If you know how to do it the hard way, you won't be a slave to doing it the easy way, or to merely watching other people do it.

The school here still requires manual cameras, teach B&W first, including developing and printing, color you also have to hand develop and print most of the semester. Only after proving you can do it by hand, can you use the automated systems. Lot's of high end cameras allow manual control, but have automatic setting too. So the school uses K-1000's so you cannot cheat.

One of the things I like about my digital camera is that it allows full apeture and shutter control, pluse manual focus. Not many of those are affordable, but they exist if you're willing to spend the money. I've got a nice 120/220 twin reflex camera too. Now if only I could find a local source for film and processing

[ThomasDodd]

ah pooey on you all!

You should think your public persona.

Perhaps you should have you father read you past messages and the responses they elicited, though he should be monitoring the board already give your age.

Maybe he can explain things in a way you'll comprehend.

[TubaRay]

"ah pooey on you all!"

"argueing online is like running in the special olympics.. even if you win, you're still retarded."

For some, posting online is akin to the adage: "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." This may not be an exact quote, but it still speaks to the situation. We all know the source of the above quotes. Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it?

[Matt G]

argueing online is like boxing.. even if you win, you come out a little more retarded.

there. its the same thing, but hating on boxors. now you goign to get pissed over hating on boxors? fine. i really dont care. but it's just a metaphor kind of thing. and retards/special olympics was the orginial one.

jeez, yall thank i get emotional. i have some semi-retarded friends. and they call me retarded, and i call them retarded. its friendly joking around. so sorry if i hurt some people on the retarded subject, i just treat them like my friend.

You, sir, have not learned anything. So now instead of insulting one group of folks you now insult two. BTW, it is boxers. I've got a website for you that can get you on your way:

http://www.m-w.com/home.htm

Some of us know you meant no particular harm. However, there are many folks who make take things a totally different way due to life experiences.

I've got a metaphor you can use:

Wrestling with folk online (like bloke) is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. All you do is get dirty and you figure out that the pig simply enjoys it.

p.s. Your shift key is lonely.

[ThomasDodd]

Wrestling with folk online (like bloke) is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. All you do is get dirty and you figure out that the pig simply enjoys it.

I like that one. I hope you didn't offend any pigs though...

[Rick Denney]

i read every single post each one of you made. it all made sense. i took none of it personally. but it ended up as a bunch of bs to me. it seems everywhere bloke post, he starts a magor amount of off topic post.

Said Gandalf (approximately), of talking to himself, "It's a habit of the old; we speak to the wisest person in the room."

Let us have our fun, and you use what's useful and ignore the rest. This isn't just your forum, okay?

As to B.S., I would suggest this: Buried in all that B.S. is a great deal of life experience. You may not understand it now, but you possibly might someday. Then, you'll think back to something Bloke said and you'll go, "Now I get it." You might even think of it before making a big mistake. But maybe not.

I would also suggest this: You are not the only person reading this thread, and the long-time regulars of this forum are pretty good at answering a narrow question a little more broadly, so that the answer addresses not only that one question, but also all the other similar questions that don't get asked.

Old people with a little wisdom have this annoying tendency, too: They see past the self-deception included in many beginner questions and address the underlying problem rather than just answering the question. The reason they do this is because that provides more value to the questioner, even if he's not prepared to listen.

And then, some old people just like to hear themselves talk. It'll do you no harm to quietly walk away if you don't want to hear it.

Rick "old" Denney

[Rick Denney]

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." This may not be an exact quote...

Allow me to rample...

It turns out that there is no clear attribution to this quote. I've seen it various ways, attributed to Mark Twain, Abraham Lincoln, Samuel Johnson, and several others.

But here is where I think it comes from:

Proverbs 17:28 "Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding."

And it's likely that Lincoln, Twain, and even Johnson may have based the versions which are attributed to them on this common source.

But I have to say that not too many of us here fare very well according to this advice.

Rick "Guilty" Denney