BBb student now ... CC later???

[windshieldbug]

someone who HATES TO BE CRITICIZED ON HIS COMMENTS!

It'sa too late to appologize! ...

[quinterbourne]

I said 2 things that will redeem my first post:

I said BASICALLY all Professors of Tuba tache on a CC, not all.

Basically, you know, it means mostly all, but not every single one does.


And I said they play on the Contrabass and an F and/or Eb

When one quotes another, they shouldn't digress to check the wording, because they could have their words shoved back in their *** by someone who HATES TO BE CRITICIZED ON HIS COMMENTS!

I'm done now.

I agree that quite often people don't really read your/our posts, they interpret them in such a way to make their argument or advance their position. I do agree that basically all tuba professors (ie university/college teachers) play on a CC tuba as well as an Eb or F tuba. Yeah, such may not be true in Germany, but we don't live in Germany! I'd hate to worry about giving general opinions that have apply to every square inch of this planet.

[tubeast]

Quite a few wise comments here.
Especially the ones commenting a music ed´s flexibility in fingering.
How do you finger a written C# in a french horn part in D on a 3+1 Bb baritone ?
Now answer a similar question by a clarinet player who insists bringing his/her own A clarinet to class. Both of your answers to those questions will not be influenced by your choice of horn.

And to those planning to teach tuba in the future:
What exactly will you teach ? Playing tuba or playing CC tuba ?
I personally hope it´s the former. After all, you won´t have to teach any of your students how to finger any note. Those that plan to go for pro tuba playing MUST already know how to play an F#3 before auditioning for college.
You´ll hopefully pass on education as to how to be a professional musician. How to define and fulfill your role in an ensemble. How to turn all those lines and dots into music. In what way the ophicleide and its sound characteristics may influence a modern tubist´s approach to certain pieces.
(Insert all kinds of things not related to the pitch of your student´s horn here)

The really BIG named tuba professors (Bill Bell, A.Jacobs, R.Bobo, many more) attract(ed) established professionals from all over the world to go study with them. Regardless of the very INSTRUMENT they played. (recorder ? voice ? ´Chello? trumpet?)
Surely these brought whatever horn their home tradition demanded.
And I dare bet something useful was taken back home by all of them in exchange for the $$$ these teachers may have received.

[Bill Troiano]

I've just finished making the audition and college visitation rounds for my son. He auditioned on a Jupiter 582 BBb (great horn-Jason Whitacker's old axe) and was accepted everywhere he applied and auditioned. Do you need a CC? No! However, almost all of the profs are playing CC's and almost all of their students are playing CC's too. I need to buy another tuba like I need another hole in my head. However, I want my son to fit in with the rest, so I'm buying him a CC. Or, I'll give him my 52J and I'll buy a new horn for myself! Nyuk, nyuk!

[Lew]

I am currently a BBb tubist. I like it, but is CC the way to go in light of an eventual music education career.

Chops

Why play CC unless you want to? There are plenty of great BBb tuba's on the market now, and for music ed you'll be teaching kids brass instruments in Bb anyway. Why make things harder on yourself? Hopefully that answered the question that you were asking.
Good Luck.
Peace.
ASG

I agree, if you plan on teaching, a BBb tuba is the way to go. That's what your kids will be learning. However, if you plan on teaching at the college/university level, then CC is probably the way to go.

Besides teaching, what are your other aspirations? Do you plan on becoming a really good player? Do you plan on playing in decent orchestras and brass quintets? If so, then maybe a CC would be better for you. If you like playing in bands, then BBb is the better choice. But, these are my opinions.

I will third that opinion. Save a couple of grand and buy a King 2341, which is a BBb Conn 56J without the 5th valve, unless you plan to teach at the college level or do a lot of orchestral playing. I do think that as a music ed major you should know how to play a tuba in any key, just as you will have to know how to play every instrument at some level, you just won't be as proficient in some as in others.

[hurricane_harry]

In my experience, at my university - trumpet players in performance own BBb and C trumpets, while those in education just own Bb trumpets.

Also, tuba players in performance usually have CC tubas while those in, usually anything else, play on BBb tubas.

There's nothing wrong with switching to CC if you're going into music education. I am in performance, playing on a CC... but planning on teaching highschool instrumental music.

Now that I am playing on a CC tuba, it does make playing baritone/euphonium, trumpet and trombone a bit more difficult. I didn't say it's impossible to go into music education playing on a CC tuba. However, it is easier to know/teach Bb trumpet, trombone, baritone/euphonium (and tuba) if BBb tuba is your primary instrument (as oppsed to CC tuba).

maybe its because i played baritone and trombone before i made the CC switch. if your gonna be a music ed major (as am i) you should be proficent on any on these horns, regardless of key. i choose my horn because it was by far the best sounding horn at dillon music in my price range. as for teaching BBb, i just concinced my band director to buy a used CC horn, probobly the best thing he could do for future students. if your gonna be the band director of your high school, when new tubas are being purchased, you ussually make the decision. besides, playing BBb is like riding a bike, you never forget.

Harry "who thinks you don't have trouble walking after learning to skip" Phillips

[LoyalTubist]

I think for American amateurs, and even for pros to some extent, the BB-flat/C question is akin to PC versus Mac. They are different but they will both get the job done--except that each of the two tubas can do what the other one does, whereas it can't be said about the computers. The tubas read the same music and have the same basic range. PCs use PC software and Macs use Macintosh software.

[Matt G]

In another thread in the not-too-distant past, I not only argued that music EDUCATION majors do not necessarily need musical PERFORMANCE degree oriented instruments (unless - AS A SIDELINE - they simply "want" them), and they also do not need to be trying to pretend (in their four years as undergraduate students) and prepare as though they were pursuing "PERFORMANCE" degrees while concentrating on ONE instrument. Rather, they were (in reality - even though the so called "Ed" degree curriculum might be all twisted around sideways towards "performance" - which is, undoubtedly, the main problem) pursuing a degree that would instruct/enlighten them as to how to TEACH others to play MANY TYPES of instruments.

These are, possibly/arguably, the main reasons why many young band directors enter the field so ill-prepared: 1/ Many of their degree curricula had only touched the surface regarding the techniques of being an instrumental music educator (i.e. ended up being "performance lite" degrees) and 2/ Some of these young people end up with built-in chips on their shoulders because they suddenly find themselves babysitting (and/or watching their backs - in some of the "tougher" schools) while trying to teach middle school band... ...instead of (their unspoken fantasy) being a "symphony star" (a huge degree program "bait-and-switch" - referred to above, if you will).

I got FAR more flames and heated discussion from those statements in that past thread as one might EVER expect to garner from some much more generally based politico-religious (i.e. "typical" flame fodder) statements, because (apparently) the VAST majority of "Ed" majors LIKE the "symphony star / bait-and-switch" fantasy that is built into music education degrees in the U.S.

bloke "I'm not pursuing the (still strongly adhered to) argument again...Talk amongst yourselves..."

With this added...

Most good tuba teachers, given a week at most, should be able to play CC, BBb, Eb or F in a public performance with no big hangups. We expect this out of an average professional trumpet play and especially of trumpet professors.

Music Ed majors should have more than one string, one woodwind, one brass, and one vocal course. Considering that each course consists of about 45 hours of actual class time, I think that students could handle a few more. Too much of their time is dedicated to playing in groups and not learning to teach. I myself didn't actually start and "education" stuff until my third year.

How about if instead of 4 years of lessons, the student must be required to pass a certain playing ability level, and then, be enrolled in a seminar in which they are led in supervised lessons of multiple instruments?

Anywho, on topic. Stick with BBb. If the school has a decent one, play for free and put some money away so that whne you graduate you can buy your own to do whatever you want after you graduate.

Oh, yeah, and I am a hipocrite on this, I was a "perfomance lite" major, who played and owned BBb's, CC's and and F while in school. Oh and Bass trombone, tenor trombone and Euph, too...

[windshieldbug]

viewtopic.php?p=114347#114347

[Brassdad]

As one who started a very similar thread abit over 6 months ago, as well as one about private lessons I will volunteer the following:

I bought my son a 1920 BBb Conn off of ebay. We got lucky in that it was a player but did need repairs that I couldn't afford right away. As my son and I attended tuba events in the DC area we got a better education, as his middle school teacher was a french horn player (well at least not a trombonist).
We decided to stay with a BBb and did some serious hunting. Baltimore Brass, Dillions, and a couple of other dealers at events. My son really liked the King 2341. We wound up with a similar tuba that we made a road trip to try out.

By this time I took the advice of several here and got him pivate lessons from Mark Thiele. (Thanks Tom Holtz for the link up).
Because of the distance between the location of the tuba and where we live, we had to go on my sons' opinion of it in comparison to the King. While I was able to save over $1,000 (getting the tuba, a ProTech gig bag, and a couple of extra mouth pieces); I'd have gone to the King if Michael had preferred it. As it was he liked the other tuba as well if not better. And with the money saved we got a hard case for it.

Here is where I was very please with Michaels' choice. Mark has played Michaels' tuba 3 times since he got it. Each time he has commented on what a nice tuba it is.

I won't go into the make, as I think the aspect of what can you get that is quality for you is better than a specific name advertisement.

[Rick Denney]

When one quotes another, they shouldn't digress to check the wording, because they could have their words shoved back in their *** by someone who HATES TO BE CRITICIZED ON HIS COMMENTS!

My hint: If you hate to be criticised on your comments, then I hope you have a high tolerance for being upset. That is not a trait likely to lower your blood pressure even on a friendly forum like Tubenet.

Expect your statements to be drawn to conclusions you did not intend. Listen when they are, because then you'll learn how to word things more clearly. That will help you in other avenues as well.

Rick "who can't tell you how many times he's eventually eaten crow because he reacted instead of responded to criticism" Denney

[Rick Denney]

To summarize the responses I agree with most strongly:

If you are going to teach, the mental machinery needed to play a tuba in any of the four pitches should not be that much of a challenge. Develop that machinery. That does not require switching to C tuba as your personal instrument.

No education major should be compelled to own a tuba of the caliber and type needed by someone preparing for the audition circuit. This affects not only pitch, but also size.

But if you want to own a C tuba, only your budget should prevent you from doing so. Don't use the notion that your students will be playing BBb to limit your own horizons.

It's really hard work playing a lot of the tuba solo literature on a C tuba, let alone a Bb tuba, for those who are spending the appropriate amounts of time on all the other instruments they will need to be able to teach. If playing that literature is either required or desired, then I would suggest an Eb or F tuba before considering adding a C, if limited funds force you to choose.

You will gain more by doing what it takes to turn out a high-end sound from the tuba you currently own than to buy a high-end tuba without being able to produce that sound. Your success will be far more limited by your willingness to be dedicated to practice and study than by your tuba.

Rick "boiling it down" Denney

[iiipopes]

And I've had several dinners of crow myself misreading what Rick has posted, and obligated myself to several rounds of beverages from misreading or taking too seriously some other postings.