Eb Tubas

[Biggs]

Sound Ministries, your [sic] a professional but without your [sic] masters...lucky?

My fellow college student, there is more than one way to skin a cat. You don't need a college degree of any variety to become a professional musician. Truth be told, there have been professional musicians that couldn't even read music! Most would consider musical literacy and college-level training to be advantages for wanna-bes like you and I, but don't confuse hard work with luck or you could wind up inadvertently offending some folks.

Although I could pontificate for a while here, I'll choose to follow Bloke's example and curtail my commentary. Briefly, I advise learning to play both Eb and F tubas. The order in which you learn them shouldn't matter.

[windshieldbug]

FOLLOWING BLOKE'S LEAD

You're the one that's got to play the notes. Your audience won't give a rat's a$$ how you do it.

Get whatever knocks your socks off when you play it. And don't buy it UNTIL you play it.

[KevinMadden]

James, you and I have approached very similar situations at very similar times. I'm also one of those 'dumb' performance majors and was recently in the market for a bass.
I knew F, had used F through the school (a PT-16) and had gone to some of the big shops looking at F's. As with you high chops have never been a problem. With that in mind one of the things I was looking for in an F was a kicking low end, the PT-16's low end sucked and it was the only drawback to playing that horn. New horn = major investment and I wanted to be completely happy with something this expensive. The F's I was digging were the big MW's and Mira's like the 45slz, Firebird, etc. and the big Hirsbrunner (my prof plays one and it friggen plays itself in your hands...mucho $$$ though)
I had no experience with Eb but when I saw this York Eb on this board for sale (I have a bit of York fetish too ) I decided to give it a shot, it makes the sounds I wanted in a bass.. kicking low end, sweet high end, manageable tuning, and a lot of flexibility in terms of weight of sound. It was also $3200 as opposed to some of the F's 6k-15k.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if it sounds good, go for it. And being open to Eb can open up some sweet deals. If the horn is good, there are a lot of dog Ebs out there, go for it. Do it now, as a CC player with no F experience the feel and fingers of an Eb can be a bit of a mind-bender, you don't want that too close to auditions or in grad school you'll want to focus on making music not learning fingers. And I do view this Eb as probably something temporary, I love it and think it was a great purchase but I know its not a be-all and end-all solo horn Sometime down the line I'd probably like to spend some big $$ and move up to a real high-end F if my profession at the time can support it and I can justify it. However, as a College student with a couple grand to use look for a good deal over the perfect horn. If this $1800 Eb can be played to the same level as some 4-6k F's, it's the smarter choice.

[jeopardymaster]

You're the one that's got to play the notes. Your audience won't give a rat's a$$ how you do it.

Amen to that. Trust your instincts, Luke. And your ear.

I like the 321 for most uses, but when I tried it I got a little frustrated with the low range, not having a usable low E.

I've found my 983 a very versatile horn, for orchestra, quintet and solo. My only beefs, 1) the tuning slide is short; and 2) sometimes when I really crank it, I blow the 2nd valve slide out of the horn.

[iiipopes]

I've found my 983 a very versatile horn, for orchestra, quintet and solo. My only beefs, 1) the tuning slide is short; and 2) sometimes when I really crank it, I blow the 2nd valve slide out of the horn.

Any reputable brass repairman should be able to remedy both situations, relatively inexpensively, 1) by soldering on longer inner tubes to the bow, unless you have a step at the top of the outer slide that prevents the tubing from going in any further, as does my Besson, and 2) by running a "ball" or other precise tool of the right diameter through the legs of the slide to slightly expand and therefore tighten them.

[J.c. Sherman]

Ron Bishop played essentially his whole carreer - including the Vaughn Williams and the John Williams - with the Cleveland Orchestra on CC. It can be done, and if you've had the joy of hearing him solo... well, lets say he didn't need anything else.

I've played my Eb in every situation imaginable. For quite some time, I didn't own an F. I now have one for some uses, but my Eb is my treasure. I've played it in the Opera and the Orchestra, Ballet, Dixieland, Solos, recitials, professional Bands... It is my bread and butter, and my greatest luck was aquiring it early.

Me, I'd tell a student to nab the 321, and save the few hundred for one of the many repair techs out there to fit it with a fifth, and there will be no "bad" notes. You don't need an F, but a bass tuba of some sort gives you some helpful flexibility.

My $.02.

[Wyvern]

Remember that over this side of the pond in the UK, Eb's are the norm and used for everything by some players.

I personally believe Eb's are more adaptable than F's, but usually don't have quite the clear lyrical voice of an F. Which is best for you, depends on taste and your playing requirements.

[Chadtuba]

Sound Ministries, your a professional but without your masters...lucky?

Where are you applying for graduate studies, does anyone know what professors would care.....Don Little said he wouldnt care with that Eb

Im just sooooooo unsure now about the YEB321

Just to clarify so no confusion here, I'm a band teacher who makes some extra cash playing my horn for fun. I am by no means what I would consider a professional caliber player, but sure wish that I was . I work hard when I can, but my classroom has to come first so I don't get nearly as much time on any of my horns as I would like.

As far as grad school, I'm auditioning this week at Univ. of North Dakota for MM Education with an emphasis in performance and next week at Norther Arizona MM in instrumental conducting.

[djwesp]

I play mostly Eb, that being said, here is what I would ask:


1. Does the horn sound good? Not, do other people like it, or do other people play it well. DOES IT PLAY WELL FOR YOU. This isn't just some scales, this is actually sitting down working out the horn.

2. Is the price worthy? If price is one of the main justifications, you will almost undoubtedly be unhappy. If the price is good for a good horn, you will probably have no regrets. Buying something based upon the sticker is scary, because 9/10 you GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

3. Can you justify your selection of Eb to a teacher/audition committee or someone critical in your grad school setting? The product is the main focus, but what will your reaction to criticism be when you undoubtedly falter at some point? (we all do, sometime, to a certain extent)

4. Do you have a problem with transposition, versatility, criticism, or that extra note that isn't comfortable in the top of the horn?

5. Can you play all the rep required, more comfortably on an F horn? If the answer is yes, why put another obstacle between yourself and your goal of professional musicianship?



Wes "knows that the only thing that should matter is the sound, but has been proved otherwise by REALITY" pendergrass

[bort]

I say buy it and try it. If you don't like it, you should be able to sell it and get your money back.

[josh_kaprun]

J.c. Sherman, seeing as how I just bought a 321, would you mind telling me who you had install the 5th valve on your 321? What kind of a 5th valve (dependent/independent...length)? I ask because, let me tell you, I think it would be really cool to have a horn with "no bad notes".

[Lew]

I've found my 983 a very versatile horn, for orchestra, quintet and solo. My only beefs, 1) the tuning slide is short; and 2) sometimes when I really crank it, I blow the 2nd valve slide out of the horn.

Any reputable brass repairman should be able to remedy both situations, relatively inexpensively, 1) by soldering on longer inner tubes to the bow, unless you have a step at the top of the outer slide that prevents the tubing from going in any further, as does my Besson, and 2) by running a "ball" or other precise tool of the right diameter through the legs of the slide to slightly expand and therefore tighten them.

The problem with the 983 tuning slide is not just that it is short, but that (at least for me) the horn plays exactly at A-440 with the slide all the way in. The outer slide tubing is also very short, so making longer inner slides is not an option for this horn. I have found a mouthpiece that allows me to have a little more flexibility in tuning my 983 (Hauser LM-15), so the short tuning slide is not an issue.

I find my 983 my favorite horn to play because of the versatility. It has a singing high range with a very accessible low range. I find I can play down to the pedal BBb and below on this horn more easily than on my King 1291.