Don't go into music!!!

[lgb&dtuba]

There is SOME motivation (if not some contest or award, recognition, appreciation, building favor, impress/meet members of the opposite sex, sell insurance to colleagues, a combination of the above, other (??), SOMETHING...)

The motivation for me is in being a part of the music as it is performed. Even an audience, for me, is optional.

We all take something away from the experience. For me it is the audience. I'm definitely not making that a value judgement, just showing that we do what we do for our own reasons.

When I joined my band 12 years ago I discovered an audience reaction that I'd never experienced ever in any type of concert band. We play up close and personal. We're part of the party. Many jobs we are the party. We mix with the audience between sets. We get to know them and they get to know us.

When we're really cooking and the audience is up dancing and singing along the feedback loop between us just generates pure energy. That's my high and addiction.

Why else would I dress up in lederhosen and play old German music? The beer's not bad either

[NDSPTuba]

I couldn't agree more with you Rick. Well said.

on a side note. I really enjoy your site. When ever I feel a need to view horn dorn your tuba comparison page gives me just what I need. lol.

[Dean]

Thus I say PISS OFF, my Brother Sinfonian

Dean, are you reading this? Are the hallowed words of Wade enjoying a different standard of scrutiny and post-worthiness than the rest of us?

Nope, same standard. Think about that.


Look, nothing here matters. This is a coffee shop. People stop here and chat about useless dribble all the time. If the words in this thread drive some of you to anger so easily, you might have other traits to work on besides playing to do well in this world--in any field.

If a post is lacking in content, and obviously written as a personal attack--to anger a person or group of people, then I will delete it. I find such posts exceedingly useless. In truth, they will only muddle the remainder of the exchange. There were 3 or 4 posts that I deleted--all of them in a row. The first was a blatant personal attack, the rest were childish taunts and "ohhhss," akin to a circle forming in a schoolyard fight.

This is not an open forum. It is controlled--moderated, if you will. This is not a place for free speech--REALLY, it isn't. If you have a problem with my moderation, take it up with Sean. He is able to remove my moderation privileges anytime he pleases. If that gets you nowhere, I suggest you self-moderate your posts, or go somewhere else.

[tubasinfonian]

[TMurphy]

I majored in music in college, with the goal of being a teacher, not a performer.

I worked for two very long years full time at a bank before finishing my degree. Although I felt fortunate to have a job, I absolutely hated it, and it did not pay very well. I finished school, and began teaching a month and a half ago.

I earn a decent salary, have good health benefits, a pension, and within a few months will be opening an IRA. I just moved into my own apartment with my girlfriend, whom I love dearly. My life is heading in the direction I have always wanted, ad I have a job I enjoy doing.

When I worked at the bank, I was just getting by...making enough to cover my bills, put gas in the car, and food in the stomach. I could not have afforded to live on my own, and it sucked, every minute of it. Anyone who isn't doing all they can to avoid living like that is an outright fool, in my opinion, regardless of what you do for a living.

Just the other day, I had a plumbing issue at my new apartment, which ended up costing me $250 (my landlord told me to take it out of next month's rent, if anyone is wondering). As much as that sucked, it felt really good to be able to write that check and not have to worry about whether I have the money. I may only be 24, but I don't ever want to live like that again (and my situation wasn't nearly as bad as what some struggling musicians go through--at least I had health insurance).

Would I trade my job now, and everything I have, for a playing career?? Absolutely not. I enjoy what I do--more than I would a performance career. As others have said, "it doesn't feel like work." I just get paid to play instruments with a bunch of kids all day. But I wouldn't teach for nothing, unless I felt it was worthwhile for me to do so. Nor would I do it for less than I'm already being paid. It's my profession, and I expect to be compensated for my services. Sure, part my reward is seeing the kids progress and achieve, but the paycheck is damned important. I'm sure professional performers feel the same.

[Mojo workin']

Nope, same standard. Think about that.


Look, nothing here matters. This is a coffee shop. People stop here and chat about useless dribble all the time. If the words in this thread drive some of you to anger so easily, you might have other traits to work on besides playing to do well in this world--in any field.

If a post is lacking in content, and obviously written as a personal attack--to anger a person or group of people, then I will delete it. I find such posts exceedingly useless. In truth, they will only muddle the remainder of the exchange. There were 3 or 4 posts that I deleted--all of them in a row. The first was a blatant personal attack, the rest were childish taunts and "ohhhss," akin to a circle forming in a schoolyard fight.

This is not an open forum. It is controlled--moderated, if you will. This is not a place for free speech--REALLY, it isn't. If you have a problem with my moderation, take it up with Sean. He is able to remove my moderation privileges anytime he pleases. If that gets you nowhere, I suggest you self-moderate your posts, or go somewhere else.

Laugh? I nearly bought one!

This, as well as many other threads, reminds me of the Orwellian metaphor from Animal Farm "All animals are equal. But Some animals are more equal than others."

[MaryAnn]

Goodness Gracious Sakes Alive! It took me two days of intermittant peeking to read the entire thread. Woo...lotta smoke here, firecrackers going off!

Well...when I was growing up, there was simply no question that I would be a professional violinist; I was told I had the talent to be a "concert violinist," whatever that was, or at least a symphony musician. So...I did the degree. Then I got married, took another path for a while. When that fell apart (no kids) I did some minimum wage jobs and then started a lesson business. I drove old rusty cars, had no health insurance, lived with a roommate. Auditioned for and got into a regional orchestra. When I hit 30, I realized, full-bore, that if I continued on my present path that I would never be able to retire. Never be able to buy a house; never be able to afford health insurance. I also had discovered that while I had the "musical ability" to be a pro, I didn't have the "athletic ability" to go beyond a certain point, and I wasn't happy with where that ceiling was. (Knowing now that I also had dystonia on violin, but it was not recognized back then.)

Went back to school; spent most of my 30's getting that BSEE. Graduated when I was 39, got the job at the company I am still at. Wasn't all that happy with the environment or the management, but really, really liked the money. Adapted. Adapted some more; started to get recognized for the work I was doing. Am respected now and rewarded financially for my expertise, as well as having full control of how I go about doing what needs to be done. Not that bad, really, worth the adapting I had to do. Do I love it? No. But I am reasonably content, which at this age is all I ask for.

Back when I was in the mindset of being a starving musician, I knew several others who were going the same route, and as far as I know, some of them stayed with it. Some of them could have done what I did, because they didn't have the brain flexibility to do so. So I feel incredibly lucky to have been able to go back to doing music for the love of it, on instruments I'm more suited to than the violin, and still be able to live comfortably.

No advice for anyone; ya'll gotta find your own path and be happy with it.

MA

[sloan]

The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People states-"Start with the end in mind".Very profound.

The one habit of highly satisfied people: start with the process in mind.

The means justify the end.

[tbn.al]

The motivation for me is in being a part of the music as it is performed. Even an audience, for me, is optional.

Amen! Amen! and Amen! I didn't really start having fun until I got my head wrapped around the idea that an audience is really very optional. I go to a rehearsal with the same anticipation that I go to a performance and leave with the same satisfaction. Life is good!

[sloan]

I've given up the oboe and am now learning euphonium, and am looking forward to joining one of the local community bands.

NO! NO! We need oboes!

[sloan]

Do not make judgements about people when you are not in a position to judge them.

Good advice. I suggest that you consider following it.

[Rick Denney]

Amen! Amen! and Amen! I didn't really start having fun until I got my head wrapped around the idea that an audience is really very optional. I go to a rehearsal with the same anticipation that I go to a performance and leave with the same satisfaction. Life is good!

It's the secret to enjoying practice, too.

A few years back, I decided I needed to lose some weight. That led to some cycling, which got me to the local bike shop to buy some bits. Being in that bike shop brought back my whole past of bike racing in college, and that led to showing up for the group rides sponsored by that shop. Then, I worked on a project with a colleague who was into triathlon. So, I started getting involved in that.

That led ultimately to an Ironman triathlon. For someone with as little talent and as much heft as me, an Ironman-length triathlon takes between 15 and 16 hours. There are cheering loved ones for a total of about six minutes of that. And it takes a dozen hours of training every week for about two years. Would I spend over 1200 hours for that six minutes of cheering? Of course not. The path is its own justification. In the end, the IM was a celebration of what I'd done for the half-dozen years leading up to it.

I learned how to enjoy being alone on a country road, running or cycling, with just the balanced feedback loop between effort, pain, and speed.

A performance is the same way. The real work of putting on a good show is in the woodshed and rehearsal hall. You have to enjoy that real work in its own right. If the only satisfaction comes from the audience, it's gonna take a lot of determination to get through all that practice. The ratio of work-to-audience applause is too high for the latter to maintain the momentum required for the former.

And it's moreso for tuba players. We often have to find satisfaction in making just the right sound for a whole note. If we can't find that, misery awaits.

But then sometimes the momentum dies anyway. After I did the Ironman, I just didn't want to devote a dozen hours a week to that level of training any more. Suddenly, it became work rather than play, and it was time to change course.

It's easy to do that with hobbies. They come and go, and I have enough of them so that they can take turns and keep me from getting too bored. With professional work, it doesn't work that way, and, like Mary Ann, I've decided to be content with my present course. That decision WILL come to MOST musicians at one time or another. At that point, passion will have to give way to sheer commitment.

Rick "who still struggles with it" Denney

[sloan]

Can anyone think of a situation where you'd not show for a performance - or even walking out on a show?

I decided to not show up for a performance, once. I went to the ER instead and checked in for a week in ICU.

Short of that, no.

(actually, the reason I spent a week in ICU is that I PLAYED the performance two nights earlier, instead of going to the ER...)

[sloan]

So, sorry for the misunderstanding about the pleasure of the money thing. I misread. I shall have my wife slap me twice for it!

Please tell us where to send the check to your wife. We wouldn't want it to be an amateur slap. We understand that she has just as much (PERHAPS MORE) passion as those who would slap you for free - but we also understand she has bills to pay.

But first, can you please supply documentation showing that she is a paid up member of the slapping Local?

[sloan]

I still stick by my statement that MONEY (or some facsimile/substitute thereof) is the UNIVERSAL token which represents how much folks CARE whether or not we deliver our wares or our services.

Money is how you measure how much *other people* value your work.

The time you put into it is how you measure how much *you* value your work.

[windshieldbug]

The time you put into it is how you measure how much *you* value your work.

The effort you put into it is how you measure how much *you* value your work

[windshieldbug]

But first, can you please supply documentation showing that she is a paid up member of the slapping Local?

Hey, she lives with Wade, ergo she MUST be!

[sloan]

I consider myself quite fortunate that what comes naturally to me turns out to be marketable, but after doing it for decades, it has lost a lot of that appeal. But it hasn't lost so much appeal that I'm willing to start over with something else. Some who are in their 20's would call that "selling out".

Some who are in their 60's might call it that, too.

My standard advice to students is: "Find out what you want to do 24/7. Then get good at it. If you are good enough, someone will pay you for it."

For older folk, the advice is: "Look at what you are actually doing 24/7. That *must* be what you want to do. If you disagree - see my standard advice to students."

A life spent doing what you love is often financially rocky, and often compromises must be made. But...a life spent chasing money doing something you don't care about is a tragedy. (note that it's not a tragedy if "chasing money" is what you love, and what you want to do 24/7. Greed is Good, too.)

And finally...my standard comment in threads like this one: if you are pursuing a COLLEGE MAJOR because you think it will automatically lead to a career in that field, then you are seriously mistaken.

Here's an acid test: my personal opinion is that you should pursue a college major if and only if you can see yourself being a lifetime AMATEUR in that field. For most college students, their college major is completely disconnected from their lifetime career. How many "historians" do you know?

This cuts both ways - if you are a college INSTRUCTOR and you believe you are training students for a career, please consider a change of profession.

Personally, I see very little point, and even less intellectual honesty, in a COLLEGE degree called "music performance". One might must as honestly offer degrees in "athletic performance", or "theatrical performance", or even, if truth be told, in "engineering performance".

I don't teach music. I teach something that many people consider to be more "career oriented". But, I spend an awful lot of my time fighting against courses I might call "computer science performance". These are the training courses that industry *claims* it wants new-hires to have taken (but, the smarter ones in industry know that they are wrong about that).
At the same time, I am constantly telling college sophomores that "if you are not writing 2 or three computer programs - FOR FUN - every week, then you should seriously re-think your choice of major."

I have (as usual) more to say...but I must leave for rehearsal...and then I need to spend some time on my Eb fingerings...

[PWtuba]

Nobody needs oboes!

More like: Nobody wants oboes.

[sloan]

I've given up the oboe and am now learning euphonium, and am looking forward to joining one of the local community bands.

NO! NO! We need oboes!

Nobody needs oboes!

Actually, talk to your local high school band instructors. Maybe one of the kids can join. Me? I've been there and done that, and am moving on to an instrument where I can breathe in at pauses instead of trying to decide whether to breathe out or faint.

Oboes are perfectly useless....up to the point where you actually play a piece of music where it is *not* the case that everyone plays loudly all the time. Some of the best wind ensemble music out there simply cannot be played without a strong oboe soloist.

One of the best oboe players in our area was also the Band Parent Association President when my younger son was in High School. By day, he's physician. No one who has heard him play has ever groused that he was pulling down the overall quality of the ensemble...

But, it's true - a medium-quallity community band will miss a solid euphonium player much sooner than they will notice that no one is covering the oboe solos. In one (not-even-medium-quality) group I played with a few years ago, the euphonium player was the one who covered ALL the solos for ALL missing (or very weak) instruments.