Best Tuba For Middle & High School Band???

[Ames0325]

and lets face it, yea alot of high school players should be using a garbage can with a hole drilled for a mouthpiece, but there should always be a working quality horn locked up somewhere.

Oh my. That strikes a nerve with me. Why does any high school student feel the entitlement to have quality equipment in their hands, provided free of charge? My encouragement: WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having any equipment to use, free of charge, should be seen for the blessing that it is and not taken for granted. If you feel the need to have better equipment than that provided to you at no cost, GO OUT AND BUY YOUR OWN!!!

End of rant.

In all fairness, the equiptment is never free of charge. It's either payed for by the taxes the parents pay, or in the case of many schools including my High School, you have to pay a fee every year or summer that you use a horn. And if the students had to buy their own instruments, music education as we know it would pretty much cease to exist.

I agree with both sides of the arguement. If I had been required to purchase my own instrument I would probably have never started band. However I played most of MS and HS on an OLD tuba ( I think King no idea what model) that looked as though it had been drug behind a truck and leaked copious amount of air due to nonprofessional repair work (nearly irreversable). I think that a student can learn to play on ANY instrument as long as it plays. However I was ecstatic when my school obtained a St. Petersburg and didn't have any trouble with it getting beat up--the valves were another story--they stuck all the time. However a new band director traded the St. Petersburg for a 3/4 Jupiter ---which I HATED. I perfered the old king that leaked to it. I couldn't get much sound out of it. It might have been alright in MS but as a Jr/Sr in HS I felt very restricted.
Amy

[Jay Bertolet]

In all fairness, the equiptment is never free of charge. It's either payed for by the taxes the parents pay, or in the case of many schools including my High School, you have to pay a fee every year or summer that you use a horn.

I understand your point about the taxes. Believe me, I understand all too well ($$$$$$!). But I am very surprised to hear that students are having to pay any sort of fee to use school owned equipment. In Florida, that sort of thing is flat illegal, as it's been explained to me by the heads of several high school programs. This sort of "usage fee" (the accumulation of which would be used to regularly maintain these horns) is something I've proposed many times here. Further, I've proposed requiring students to sign a contract that makes them and their parents financially liable for any damage (other than normal wear and tear) that occurs to the instruments they're given to use. In every case these ideas have not been able to be implemented.

Don't get me wrong, I would really like to see quality instruments in the hands of young musicians to aid them in the learning process. But that level of quality always reaches a point of absurdity. Schools have budgets too, and at some point you have to wonder how to justify to parents that are paying HUGE amounts of property tax that their money is being spent wisely. When I see the thousands of dollars spent on school instruments (even the cheaper models) and then see how those instruments are abused by the students lucky enough to get to use them, it makes me want to suggest these students should buy their own equipment. At least that way, they'd be wasting their own money and not mine (and every other taxpayer that's contributing until it hurts so that "johnny" can have a nice shiny tuba to ruin during some juvenile prank).

Besides, the best students inevitably find school owned instruments wanting and, if they're dedicated enough to really need a good quality instrument, will budget the time and energy to come up with the money to buy what they need. My issue is with spending thousands of dollars to put a shiny instrument into the hands of a student that neither knows what to do with it nor how to care for it.

End of second rant.

[ThomasDodd]

This sort of "usage fee" (the accumulation of which would be used to regularly maintain these horns) is something I've proposed many times here. Further, I've proposed requiring students to sign a contract that makes them and their parents financially liable for any damage (other than normal wear and tear) that occurs to the instruments they're given to use. In every case these ideas have not been able to be implemented.

I thing a usage/maintanance fee owuld be a good thing, as would some sort of damage insurance. Most rental horns have an insurance option, for a few bucks a month.
This place offers it from $1.60 to $10 depending on the instrument. It woul be reasonable for students to be required to purchase similar on school owned horns ( athletes have to buy insurance to play).

When I see the thousands of dollars spent on school instruments (even the cheaper models) and then see how those instruments are abused by the students lucky enough to get to use them, it makes me want to suggest these students should buy their own equipment.

Thousands is mostly wasting money. The schools should buy serviceable used horns. As private owners get new horns, plenty of used horns show up. If used horns dry up, then we can talk about new horns. But the used market is and untaped resource now.

That said, I might never have played tuba if I had to purchase one. But I did buy a trombone, and probably would have bought a valved horn (trombone or euphonium) if I had not switched to tuba ( had too much trouble with slide positions).

Similar arguments arrise for "marching" horns. How many horn player also own a mellophone? Or euphonium players have marching style horns? Now think about high school students that barely paid for their student grade concert horns.

[Captain Sousie]

In my opinion you can't beat a yamaha YBB321 for a versatile middle/high school band tuba that has all the durability of an M1A2. The only hangup is that they are a teensey bit pricey.

Sousie

[Ryan_Beucke]

To be honest, I'm not even sure where the usage fees went exactly, but I think in my school they had to have gone towards the purchase of new instruments when needed. I think the fee was 40 dollars for a horn for the whole year, and then 20 for the summer, figure in the huge amount of kids renting school instruments each year, they must've gotten more than enough to do the repairs and put a cetain amount towards future purchases. I think all schools should have this, but then again it has a lot to do with the are. I was lucky enough to go to a school where the music department had a lot of support from the community, so charging the usage fees was never a problem.

[Rick Denney]

[Today's high school kids are wild, angry, drunken potheads (well, maybe only perhaps half of them).

apart from the angry that description fits a lot of professional musicians to varying degrees.

Except that even when toasted they don't drop their instruments, unless they are famouse and rich and didn't have to pay for it.

I don't know of anybody who had to pay for a tuba who thinks nothing of damaging it for the sheer fun of it (which goes beyond plain carelessness), even if they are in a stupor.

Rick "thinking lack of accountability is a factor not only in the destruction but also the anger, drunkenness, and pot smoking" Denney

[Rick Denney]

I wonder how many geezers played on nice white fiberglass sousaphones in high school concert band? That's what those sousaphone chairs were for, right?

I'm one. I played a plastic King from 7th grade until my senior year, when my band director borrowed a Miraphone from Rice University for me to play.

By the way, Bloke, Chuck D's tuba is fiber-reinforced plastic (the meta-term for fiberglass and carbon composite), but it's not fiberglass. Both the plastic binder and the fibers are much different. Fiberglass uses an acrylic resin, while carbon composite uses epoxy (I have no idea of what difference that might make). The carbon fibers have much, much greater tensile strength and stiffness than the glass fibers.

Rick "thinking not all FRP is the same, and only the cheap stuff should be entrusted to gorillas" Denney

[Rick Denney]

In all fairness, the equiptment is never free of charge. It's either payed for by the taxes the parents pay, or in the case of many schools including my High School, you have to pay a fee every year or summer that you use a horn. And if the students had to buy their own instruments, music education as we know it would pretty much cease to exist.

I'm not sure that what passes for music education in those places where school instruments are gleefully battered into oblivion is really worth that much. (I'm sure I'll take a beating for that statement).

School instruments should be durable, simple, and cheap. And the students who play them should be grateful for the privelege of doing so.

But my reason for responding is that there is a difference between "free of charge" and "free". It's free of charge to the student (and $40 a semester is small enough change to be nominally free, in my view), but not free to those who pay for it. Society at large picks up that tab, and it seems to me that in too many places they get too little for their investment.

Rick "thinking music should be a noble pursuit but is treated like a sports program by too many band directors--hence filling their program with jock-types" Denney

[hurricane_harry]

and lets face it, yea alot of high school players should be using a garbage can with a hole drilled for a mouthpiece, but there should always be a working quality horn locked up somewhere.

Oh my. That strikes a nerve with me. Why does any high school student feel the entitlement to have quality equipment in their hands, provided free of charge? My encouragement: WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having any equipment to use, free of charge, should be seen for the blessing that it is and not taken for granted. If you feel the need to have better equipment than that provided to you at no cost, GO OUT AND BUY YOUR OWN!!!

End of rant.

im paying $1700 dollars this year alone with my band account, no doubt im gratefull that now my valves move freely (somewhat), but i think there should be at least one horn that doesn't sound like a dieing elephant

[Dan Schultz]

Goodness, guys! All I really wanted to know was your opinions on what tubas to buy for a middle/high school band. So far, all I've seen is favorable opinions for Jupiter and/or Yamaha tubas. Want to start over?

[Jay Bertolet]

im paying $1700 dollars this year alone with my band account, no doubt im gratefull that now my valves move freely (somewhat), but i think there should be at least one horn that doesn't sound like a dieing elephant

Harry! I'm not at all sure what your "band account" entails, nor how such an account is handled, but you should know that for about twice what you're paying this year to your band account, you could own your very own tuba. And I'm not talking junk here, you could find several good new tubas for that price and, depending on the key and the frills desired, you could also find some professional quality used tubas for that price. Then you could sound as good as you like, your valves would always work, and you can stick some other kid with that "dieing elephant" tuba which is so obviously holding you back. Imagine the nerve of the public school system trying to stick you with that tuba!

[dopey]

as far as paying for school instruments, we dont' have to here.

I find it funny at times hearing people gripe about why they sound like they do on a particular tuba. We currently have 4 tubas and only 3 highschool concert tubas (cerveny's). The director recently ordered the 4th which i'll have the honor of playing when it arrives. However until then I have chose to not play one of the other's tuba and make a lower chair play a jr high tuba, but I play the jr high tuba.

Let me tell ya this is the example of what a jr high horn is. The leadpipe doesn't like to stay on, there is a piece of ductape on the bottom bow, the finish is gone.. the bell has actually been bent over completely once (instrument cart fell on it.. strap broke on truck).. anyway.. Bottom line this 3 valve tuba which looks quite awful actually puts out a very nice sound. Which is also in tune.

If i'd of let the lower chair tuba play it he would use the horn as an excuse as to why his tone is what it is. Which is why I chose to play it, to prevent whining and excuses..

Jacob"Who feels 90% of the time its the player not the horn"Morgan

[Chuck(G)]

Goodness, guys! All I really wanted to know was your opinions on what tubas to buy for a middle/high school band. So far, all I've seen is favorable opinions for Jupiter and/or Yamaha tubas. Want to start over?

So why not the Glassls, Dan?

[Daryl Fletcher]

So why not the Glassls, Dan?

I would be interested in a Glassl tuba, probably not for my main horn, but for situations where having something lightweight and durable would be beneficial. I've written emails to the company, and they have been very kind in their responses. If I had the extra money and if not for the fact that the dollar is exchanging so poorly against the Euro these days, I would probably consider one.

I started out on a Conn 36K fiberglass sousaphone. As strange as some people might think this comment is, I wonder if their value is underestimated for school use, although at the time I didn't think it was all that great. Maybe it's because we look at things differently when we get older.

My school sousaphone had been abused before I got there (and I was there in the 80's). The lower branch, the last brass part before it joins the fiberglass, had holes in it and was covered up with electrical tape. We got it replaced, and needless to say, it played like a whole different instrument after that.

[Dan Schultz]

Goodness, guys! All I really wanted to know was your opinions on what tubas to buy for a middle/high school band. So far, all I've seen is favorable opinions for Jupiter and/or Yamaha tubas. Want to start over?

So why not the Glassls, Dan?

I guess I COULD paint this 36K standing in the corner of my shop black and pretend, huh? I worked on a project a couple of years ago to develop an automobile horn with a plastic case. The only plastic material we found that would come close to the properties of steel is a Celanese product called 'Fortran'. I would like to see a bell injection molded out of this stuff! I think it injects at around 550 degrees F.

[TubaRay]

Tubaboy, why must one resort to name-calling? It is one thing to disagree with another post. It is quite another to start calling names. I think, at least I hope, I speak for most TubeNetters when I say that I wish folks would refrain from the name-calling and simply state their case in refuting whatever it is they disagree with.

[Captain Sousie]

The days of presenting and arguing a point with only information and/or facts are effectively over. Haven't you seen the political forums in this country? It is now an accepted method of debate to insult and tear down an opponent when logic and reason alone do not effectively support an argument.

Therefore, you sir are an antiquated thingy. (Was that a good enough insult to help me win? )

Thank you,
Sousie (CPT)

[TubaRay]

"An antiquated thingy" is indeed what I am. You have nailed that. I'm afraid you have also nailed it when it comes to the preferred method of debate.

[Rick Denney]

you're an idiot

I'm looking forward to the opportunity that may someday come your way to repeat that conclusion to Jay's face. You might find it more difficult to say at that time than while hiding behind what you think is an anonymous nickname on this forum.

Of course, you are completely wrong. Jay wasn't saying that those who could not afford tubas should not be provided them by their schools. He was saying that those who cannot afford tubas and get the free use of them during school shouldn't complain about them, but instead should be grateful for their favorable treatment by the local taxpayers. And he was saying that those who could not tolerate playing the tubas provided for free still have no basis for complaint, but perhaps do have the basis for sufficient motivation to earn enough money to buy their own.

Rick "who did just fine playing a plastic King sousaphone for 5.5 of his 6 years in public school band programs" Denney

[Rick Denney]

"An antiquated thingy" is indeed what I am. You have nailed that. I'm afraid you have also nailed it when it comes to the preferred method of debate.

Fortunately, rapier wit is still enjoyable for the transmitter, even if the receiver is no longer able to be tuned to those frequencies.

And, by the way, is the antiquated thingy going to make it to the Army conference this year? Other antiquarians on this end hope so.

Rick "lamenting the demise of the politely spoken--and politely received--insult" Denney