HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band too

[hokkmike]

The policy will change QUICKLY if the size of the concert band diminishes as well. It could back-fire.

[pgym]

The policy will change QUICKLY if the size of the concert band diminishes as well. It could back-fire.

Or it could be a raging success as incoming students realize that:

a) they receive a full academic credit for band, band rehearsals take place during the school day;
b) they no longer have to choose between band and other extracurricular activities; AND
c) owing to the significantly reduced time commitment (you DID read the linked articles that report that the band will no longer be involved in marching competitions, didn't you), they can participate in band and still take the honors/AP courses they want to take.

Several area papers report that, with six weeks to go before freshman registration for next year is finished, 68 incoming freshman have already signed up for band next year.

Since returning band member are grandfathered into the current concert-band only option, there's no good reason to anticipate a significant drop in the number of returning members next year, but even assuming one third of the current members either graduate or elect not to sign up for band next year, that's net increase of 55 over the size of the current marching band, and a net increase of 18 in the current concert band.

THAT really sounds like it's backfiring, doesn't it?

[PWtuba]

Having just graduated high school, I'd like to offer the following:

In many places, not having a marching band is just not an option. High school band directors are most often required to have a marching band as part of their contract.

With that in mind, it is important to realize the huge social stigma that, for whatever reason, now accompanies the act of being in band in high school. Kids who are in band are considered by their non-band peers to be nerds, geeks, dorks, and flat-out losers. While it might be easy to say, "They shouldn't care about what others think," that's much easier said than done for high-school kids. High school marching bands are often publicly ridiculed by the rest of the student body. The label "band kid" is applied to anyone in the marching band, and it comes with relentless, nasty insults.

This isn't just something that occured in my high-school. It is a nation-wide phenomenon. So imagine the difficulty many band directors have. With this ludicrous social taboo on being in the marching band, it can be frustratingly difficult to find kids who are willing and eager to participate.

To the many posts before who claim that something is "seriously wrong" if a 3200-student school can only get 40 marching band members, I believe that you were missing some crucial information about WHY so few kids are attracted to the marching band. It may have nothing to do with the program itself.

Going back to the first few sentences of this post; if band directors want their marching bands to be contenders at the competitions (or to provide quality entertainment at the halftime shows), they may need to increase their numbers by whatever means. And I do agree with Tubaryan; there's nothing wrong with mandatory marching band. These days, it's the norm. Just because it may have been an outlandish policy 30 years ago, does not mean it still is. 30 years ago, you could carry a knife on board a civilian flight (citation needed). Today, the policy for attempting to bring a knife on-board dictates that said person be arrested, searched, background checked, interrogated, arrested again, de-pantsed, dissected, thrown in the dungeon and barred from ever stepping foot inside an airport, train station, restaurant, Wal-greens or Toys-R-Us again.

I also think that marching band can have good applications for the concert band as well, but that's another topic. I've got to run off now to my Marching Band Methods class...

[MikeS]

I went to a large city high school back in the '60s. My freshman year I signed up for band as a euphonium player* and, before I knew it, was being screamed at by neo-fascist wannabe line leaders in the sweltering August sun. Think Neidermeyer in "Animal House" and you will be in the ballpark. I loathed every minute of marching band.

My least fond memory of marching was an away game in late November. It was -12 Fahrenheit on the thermometer at the start of the game. Shortly before halftime they announced that the school building would be open so folk could warm up. Our hopes of joining them were quashed when the Director told us he had never canceled a show, ever. The other band played for the warming masses in the cafeteria. We did our whole program with, literally, not a single person in the stands. If anyone wants to tell me that was a character building experience then I feel deeply sorry for you. If anyone wants to tell me that was a musical experience then your definition is considerably different from mine.

At the end of my freshman year I told the director I was looking forward to concert band next year but did not want to march. He told me you had to march to be in concert band. My Father's suggestion was to work like a fiend over the summer learning trombone and audition (successfully) for the orchestra. I managed to stumble into something that proved a really positive, life-changing experience. While I understand the pressures under which band directors operate, faced with the prospect of another year of marching I would have put the horn in the case for good.



* We were called baritone players back in the day.

[tubeast]

In the year of 1988/89, I joined Elkhart Central High School, Elkhart, IN as a foreign exchange student.
I played trumpet / flugelhorn in band. High School marching band was my first introduction to marching at all and an experience I´ll never forget.
I got absorbed in the group effort thing and learned about marching in a way you won´t likely encounter over here.
The crowd was cool and fun to hang out with, and some of the "hardships", like late practices out in the cold, sweat burning in my eyes while I couldn´t wipe, and an occasional yell were well refunded by a feeling of accomplishment when I began to get things right, and the powerful atmosphere when we marched underneath the stadium stands to take a right turn onto Rice Field, marching as if in trance to the drum line drills that reverberated from everywhere.

Of course all this was part of the (at first) overwhelming, unusual, and sometimes, well, STRANGE stuff there was to explore about life as a teenager in the States. I still remember the school´s fight song and can name many of my bandmates, although I hadn´t thought of them for years untill I stumbled over this thread.

Having means of identification with one´s school (colors, letter sweaters, letter jackets, class rings, official yearbooks, a marching band, spirit club, cheerladers ...) had been unknown to me before I was introduced to American culture this way. At least, my home school offered none of this sort. Sometimes I felt this kind of patriotism for your school was a bit exaggerated, but at the same time I believe we could have benefitted of some of that at home, too.

So, yes, I do think it´s appropriate to sort of make marching band the fall season variant of concert band.
As others have mentioned, there are other opportunities to be a musician in and out of school.
Did I enjoy each and every minute on the field ? No. Was I proud and excited ? I guess you can tell.

I feel sorry for PWtuba´s experiences of being looked down upon or even bullied for being in band.
But then again, I don´t think people who react this way are eligible as good company to any person with self respect or basic common sense.

Hans

[TubaRay]

Warning! Warning!! You are about to read a profound statement:

I feel sorry for PWtuba´s experiences of being looked down upon or even bullied for being in band.
But then again, I don´t think people who react this way are eligible as good company to any person with self respect or basic common sense.

Hans

[PWtuba]

Warning! Warning!! You are about to read a profound statement:

I feel sorry for PWtuba´s experiences of being looked down upon or even bullied for being in band.
But then again, I don´t think people who react this way are eligible as good company to any person with self respect or basic common sense.

Hans

Warning! Miscommunication has occured!

Whether they are good company or not is irrelevant. Choosing not to associate with those kids is not the solution. It's just what they do, whether they know the band kids or not. If you're not in the band, you make fun of the band. That's just the way it is. It's not a question of 'picking friends.' The band members, as you can imagine, make an effort to avoid them, because they're going to do it whenever they have the opportunity*. As I said, this is a nation-wide phenomenon. It is NOT just something that happened to ME within MY group of peers and can therefore serve as a lesson for me from the TubeNet elders about how to choose good friends.

I'm attempting to make clear just how harsh the climate of belittlement is; the point being, it is difficult to recruit kids to willingly join an organization which carries the unfortunate stereotype of being the exact bottom of the social food chain. Nobody wants to join a group that is constantly mocked simply for being what it is.

That's all I'm saying: that the fact that a school of 3200 only has 40 marching band members (using the example in the OP) doesn't necessarily imply that there is something "seriously wrong" with the band program or the band director. The truth is, nobody wants to be in marching band, because everyone knows that marching band is for losers.

*Most kids who are already in the band just learn to deal with the humiliation, get used to it, and don't let it bother them.

[TexTuba]

Whether they are good company or not is irrelevant. Choosing not to associate with those kids is not the solution. It's just what they do, whether they know the band kids or not. If you're not in the band, you make fun of the band. That's just the way it is. It's not a question of 'picking friends.' The band members, as you can imagine, make an effort to avoid them, because they're going to do it whenever they have the opportunity*. As I said, this is a nation-wide phenomenon. It is NOT just something that happened to ME within MY group of friends and can therefore serve as a lesson for me from the TubeNet elders about how to choose my friends.

I'm attempting to make clear just how harsh the climate of belittlement is; the point being, it is difficult to recruit kids to willingly join an organization which carries the unfortunate stereotype of being the exact bottom of the social food chain. Nobody wants to join a group that is constantly mocked simply for being what it is.

That's all I'm saying: that the fact that a school of 3200 only has 40 marching band members (using the example in the OP) doesn't necessarily imply that there is something "seriously wrong" with the band program or the band director. The truth is, nobody wants to be in marching band, because everyone knows that marching band is for losers.

*Most kids who are already in the band just learn to deal with the humiliation, get used to it, and don't let it bother them.

Sorry, but you're WAY off. Nationwide phenomenon? Please! Here in Texas, when I was in high school, people didn't make fun of band students. At about 170 members, we were our own "social group." No one messed with us.

Do not think your crappy experience is how it is everywhere.

[PWtuba]

It may not be everywhere, but it's certainly not limited to my high school. Perhaps I exaggerated by implying that it's in every single school, in every high school, but I can assure you that it is a not uncommon.

[Tubaryan12]

Sorry, but you're WAY off. Nationwide phenomenon? Please! Here in Texas, when I was in high school, people didn't make fun of band students. At about 170 members, we were our own "social group." No one messed with us.

Do not think your crappy experience is how it is everywhere.

Indeed, this statement is true. In high school, people literally came to the football game to see the band, and left shortly after we performed. When I look back I was a geek. I even took my yearbook picture with my horn..... but somehow no one had the ability to make me feel that way in school.

Tubaryan "and yes, I'm still a geek" 12

[TUBAD83]

Having just graduated high school, I'd like to offer the following:

With that in mind, it is important to realize the huge social stigma that, for whatever reason, now accompanies the act of being in band in high school. Kids who are in band are considered by their non-band peers to be nerds, geeks, dorks, and flat-out losers. While it might be easy to say, "They shouldn't care about what others think," that's much easier said than done for high-school kids. High school marching bands are often publicly ridiculed by the rest of the student body. The label "band kid" is applied to anyone in the marching band, and it comes with relentless, nasty insults.

This isn't just something that occured in my high-school. It is a nation-wide phenomenon. So imagine the difficulty many band directors have. With this ludicrous social taboo on being in the marching band, it can be frustratingly difficult to find kids who are willing and eager to participate.

PW,

I assure you that social nonsense was in full bloom when I was in high school 35 years ago however, our band was actually well liked by the student body in general (we also had a contingent in the band who no problems addressing ANY insult to the band after school--sometimes DURING school--a field snare, properly used, leaves a very nice imprint on an unsuspecting body). We played a big variety of music in the stands and in our shows (Fleetwood Mac, KC and the Sunshine Band, Earth Wind & Fire, Parliament, Emotions, Steve Miller Band, etc. and we had socialites, jocks, geeks and gangsters in our band, so we had connections to every social group.

Just remember this: 10 - 20 years down the road when you see one of the guys who made fun of you in school, try not to laugh when you give him your order, OK? Living well is TRULY the best revenge!

JJ

[PWtuba]

Thanks, JJ. All I'm saying is that I've met many kids from many parts of the country who agree that marching band carries a pretty harsh social stigma.

Edit: My apologies if my speeches about the current American teenage social culture have steered this topic off-course.

[Ricko]

This topic has Interesting timing... I just finished a conversation with my son about scheduling next year - he's considering dropping band because he's tired of the 'yelling all the time' (even when not directed at him). He's going to give it another semester and try to make the higher level band - hopefully to get with better players.

It's been 25+ years since I loaded up a sousaphone - but I do remember that ANY hour of high school marching band was better than ANY hour in high school PE with coach Tucker - even when it was more like 3 hours of marching band to 1 hour of coach Tucker.

[KevinMadden]

When I was in HS (class of 2005) we had a roughly 180 person band program (in a school of roughly 2500) that had a mandatory marching aspect. All rehearsals for marching band were held during normal class time excepting a one week 'camp' before school began and the actual football games and parades which were of course after school. Once football season ended we would quickly prepare an Christmas concert and then after Christmas break we would hold auditions and separate into two separate groups and focus on concert band competitions and spring concerts. The band was a fun time and was certainly its own social cliche and didn't really take gruff from anyone else, the kids in band WERE the top of just about every other social order in the school. Valedictorian, Salutatorians, National Honor Society members, class officers, and the yearbook staff were all heavily comprised of band members. Heck, people liked getting out of class for the extra time necessary to get into and out of uniform for the various events we had to do during school. And getting into all the football games for free was a good enough perk for most of us as well.

IMO I think a problem with most 'modern' HS marching bands is how good they strive to be, seriously. Marching bands that are not voluntary dedicated marching ensembles should not strive to be like the Cavaliers or Phantom Regiment. My band played well but we marched like crap, and our directors knew it, so they gave us a lot of 'park and blow' type drill and never really pushed the issue. We didn't compete (mainly so we wouldn't have to deal with losing horribly) but we fulfilled our purpose of being halftime entertainment and a pep squad very very well. When our football team would play schools with these 'good' marching bands that were trying to play some esoteric Corps style show with more intricate drill and less accessible music they'd be ignored and possibly laughed at (the mindset of the crowd at these games is a discussion for another day) Then our band would stroll on the field, play the crap out of some pop charts and get a huge ovation. The average HS band viewer (the guy in the stands at a game or person watching a parade) is generally woefully undereducated in 'classical' music and imprinting a good impression on them is easy, just play some tune you know they'll know and play it well. You'll get the support and drum up the pep for the school you need, which I think is the most important thing an HS band does.

Now did we arguably 'waste' a few months of education that could have been better spent studying heavy band classics? maybe. It was a fun time though and kept the band kids gung-ho about band and about being in school. In my area at least (southern NH) the kids that really wanted to pursue music had plenty of outlets. My HS had several choirs, and orchestra, a jazz band, as well as theory and key boarding classes and all of these were electives within the school day. My city also had a great youth orchestra and youth wind ensemble so we could really afford to take a few months to splash the school name on our chests and be exciting (albeit somewhat ham-fisted) entertainment.