ALL public schools should buy ALL low-grade Chinese instr's

[sloan]

How will buying Chinese tubas help? [just trying to stay on topic...]

[sloan]

There are two issues here:

1) students may be less than careful custodians of their school-owned instruments

2) students may not have enough CONTROL over those instruments to keep them from harm.

Here's a plan: when a student enters the band program - GIVE THEM:

a) an instrument in playable condition
b) a case capable of providing minimal protection
c) a locker where they can store the instrument, in its case

Your horn is trash? Not my problem! One per customer.

This probably costs the Band Parents' Check Writing Association less in the long run.

[ghmerrill]

why not buy disposable nearly worthless equipment in order to waste as little as possible ... .

I would argue that there is actually something of a tradition here. Traditionally, parents have been compelled (by circumstances and "recommendations" of band directors whose interests may not have been the purest one can imagine) to shell out rather excessive rental fees for at best mediocre instruments -- providing a substantial part of the revenue for local "music stores". This was -- in my experience at least -- "nearly worthless equipment" in which the parents and student retained no interest other than temporary use.

From my perspective, it is a HUGE advantage for parents to buy an instrument (of, I would argue, at least comparable quality to the traditional rental ones: Bundy, etc.) which the student may continue to use beyond a single year (and if taken care of, for a number of years), and which may then even be sold to beginning students at a later time -- if well taken care of. If not well taken care of, then little in capital investment has been lost, and at least you (parent) don't have to pay repair costs in addition to rental fees. Or so it seems to me. I would (thinking back) DEFINITELY buy my kid a Chinese euphonium (trumpet, trombone, flute, clarinet, etc.) rather than renting something from the local rental pirate. (Of course, what I DID do was to pass on my flute to my daughter, get a decent used clarinet for son #2, and a quite good bassoon for son #1. But I don't think that weakens my argument here about buy-cheap-Chinese vs. rental.)

This does not, of course, address the question as to what SCHOOLS should buy. Again (didn't I say this already?) except in the case of "large and exceptional instruments" (timpani, string bass, etc.) I don't see good reason for the school to provide any instruments to students. Those "large and exceptional instruments" I see as "necessary infrastructure". I'm inclined to include tubas among them. But that view could be swayed.

[Donn]

With all due respect, your experience is anecdotal whereas mine (having gone through and repaired many schools' instruments for well over thirty years) is legion.

and of course a more impartial observer, there never was.

The point I draw from these anecdotes is that a band director might be better advised to rely on his own judgement in these matters.

More broadly, it does make me wonder if the lifespan of band instruments could be used as a statistical index, maybe a surrogate for other things that are less easily measured but of greater sociological interest. Could be a research project in it.

[TubaRay]

Sousaphone bell creases are caused by man-made climate change.

Shouldn't you have given Al Gore credit for that quote?

[k001k47]

Yeah, buy the tubas from Al, public schools.

[ghmerrill]

More broadly, it does make me wonder if the lifespan of band instruments could be used as a statistical index, maybe a surrogate for other things that are less easily measured but of greater sociological interest. Could be a research project in it.

grants.gov

(If you haven't looked at this site but wonder how some of your money is being spent -- including 24/7 phone support for applying for grants -- you really need to. Very entertaining. And I'm sure you can find some possibilities for such a grant.)

[TubaRay]

Sousaphone bell creases are caused by man-made climate change.

Shouldn't you have given Al Gore credit for that quote?

Yes. He invented tubenet, didn't he?

Absolutely! I understand he's working on a system of tuba offsets.

[b.williams]

"Kids! What's the matter with kids, today?" - exercise for the reader: when were these lyrics written?

“Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannise their teachers.”
― Socrates 469-399 BC

[sloan]

"Kids! What's the matter with kids, today?" - exercise for the reader: when were these lyrics written?

“Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannise their teachers.”
― Socrates 469-399 BC

The trouble with quotes you see on the Interwebz is that you can never really be sure they are accurate.
- Abraham Lincoln

[ghmerrill]

"Kids! What's the matter with kids, today?" - exercise for the reader: when were these lyrics written?

“Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannise their teachers.”
― Socrates 469-399 BC

The trouble with quotes you see on the Interwebz is that you can never really be sure they are accurate.
- Abraham Lincoln

It takes little effort to get quite reliable evidence for a quote on the web. This is unlike, say, in ancient times, when, for example, Socrates left no written works and we must trust the likes of Plato (often a hardly neutral observer) for the accuracy of Socrates' thoughts and teaching. And we KNOW what happened to Socrates -- precisely for "corrupting the youth".

[ghmerrill]

You are, of course, aware that we "know" what happened to Socrates through Plato?

You might want to rethink that question -- or perhaps do a little more careful research on it.

But perhaps you really know the answer and are just attempting irony.

[ghmerrill]

Not at all. I mean what I say. Maybe you need to rethink what I typed. Carefully. It is very specific in what it leaves out. Thanks for playing our game.

I'm willing to play but really confused at this point. Could you be more precise?