Tipping...

[bort]

Some friends and I were at a baseball game a few weeks ago, and went to the concession stand to get some beers. There were two guys working behind the counter. One guy poured the beer, and the other guy takes the tip jar, bangs it on the counter and says "hey, we do take tips, you know."

If he wasn't an *** about it, I might have actually given him my change.

[TMurphy]

When you find a gas station that has a self-serve pump and a full-service pump, do you tip the guy pumping the gas? Since the price is often double for full-service, I say no, since I'm paying for that sevice already. Now if the price was the same, I could tip, based on the level of service I got.

Ah, the joys of New Jersey. Nothing but full-service, at the same price (or less) than what you pay for self-serve.

Getting on topic, though, I always tip between 18% and 20% to a waiter/waitress, unless the service was really, really bad. I also do not like the idea of adding a gratuity into the bill...I remember being in a diner with 3 other people, recieving terrible service, and then arguing with the manager over the fact that we were mischarged on the bill....on top of the fact that an 18% gratuity was added in (which we refused to pay....service was THAT bad). That made me very angry.

I do, though, understand why tips are added into the bill with large parties. When a group of 10-12 people come into a restaurant, that becomes work above and beyond the norm for a waiter/waitress. And, for some reason, it is to my experience that whenever I go out to eat with a group of people, there are always those among us who get really cheap on the bill. So it's easy for a waiter/waitress to get screwed out of a tip, because of the complexity of trying to get everyone to pay up. Adding it to the bill in that case guarantees that won't happen.

[Joe Baker]

Cyras, that's about the amount of tea I drank when I used your hot sauce!
___________________________
Joe Baker, who likes hot stuff, but durn...

[Dan Schultz]

When I'm out eating ...... A good server will refill my glass AT LEAST 8 times.

GOOD GOD You must have a 6/4 bladder

[MaryAnn]

Well, you know what bugs ME?
At the *really* expensive restuarants, they don't have waitresses. They have waiters.
MA, who worked graveyards as a dishwasher while in music school

[Kevin Hendrick]

When I'm out eating ...... A good server will refill my glass AT LEAST 8 times.

GOOD GOD You must have a 6/4 bladder

And only one water key ...

[funkcicle]

better be careful not to under-tip:

http://cbs2.com/water/watercooler_story_255090951.html

Man Arrested After Leaving Small Tip

Sep 11, 2004 6:08 am US/Pacific
LAKE GEORGE, N.Y. (AP) A New York City man accused of leaving an inadequate tip at a restaurant was arrested, fingerprinted and photographed for a mug shot.

Humberto A. Taveras, 41, faces a misdemeanor charge of theft of services after he and his fellow diners argued with Soprano's Italian and American Grill managers over the legality of requiring an 18 percent tip for large parties.

"They chased us down like a bunch of criminals," Taveras said. "It killed our weekend."

Taveras and eight others had pizza at the restaurant Sunday night. He told the Glens Falls Post-Star they weren't completely satisfied with the food and left a tip of under 10 percent. Taveras said they also were not told of a mandatory 18 percent gratuity for parties of six or more and did not see notice of it on their menus.

Restaurant owner Joe Soprano said all the menus have the notice, and the waitress informed the group. He said he did not choose to pursue charges because of the money, but because Taveras' group was obnoxious.

"It's unfortunate it has come to this, but this guy was rude and abrasive. They practically threw food at us," Soprano said.

Taveras plans to fight the charge. He was issued an appearance ticket and was scheduled to appear in town court Thursday.

The arrest raises the issue of whether the gratuities that restaurants automatically tack on for serving large groups are legally enforceable debts.

Warren County Sheriff Larry Cleveland said he did not believe the issue had been litigated before in New York. He said the case could turn on whether the person is notified of the tip requirement beforehand.

"It's not a black-and-white issue," Cleveland said. "It will be very interesting to see where it goes in court."

[funkcicle]

better be careful not to under-tip:

http://cbs2.com/water/watercooler_story_255090951.html

Man Arrested After Leaving Small Tip

Sep 11, 2004 6:08 am US/Pacific
LAKE GEORGE, N.Y. (AP) A New York City man accused of leaving an inadequate tip at a restaurant was arrested, fingerprinted and photographed for a mug shot.

Humberto A. Taveras, 41, faces a misdemeanor charge of theft of services after he and his fellow diners argued with Soprano's Italian and American Grill managers over the legality of requiring an 18 percent tip for large parties.

"They chased us down like a bunch of criminals," Taveras said. "It killed our weekend."

Taveras and eight others had pizza at the restaurant Sunday night. He told the Glens Falls Post-Star they weren't completely satisfied with the food and left a tip of under 10 percent. Taveras said they also were not told of a mandatory 18 percent gratuity for parties of six or more and did not see notice of it on their menus.

Restaurant owner Joe Soprano said all the menus have the notice, and the waitress informed the group. He said he did not choose to pursue charges because of the money, but because Taveras' group was obnoxious.

"It's unfortunate it has come to this, but this guy was rude and abrasive. They practically threw food at us," Soprano said.

Taveras plans to fight the charge. He was issued an appearance ticket and was scheduled to appear in town court Thursday.

The arrest raises the issue of whether the gratuities that restaurants automatically tack on for serving large groups are legally enforceable debts.

Warren County Sheriff Larry Cleveland said he did not believe the issue had been litigated before in New York. He said the case could turn on whether the person is notified of the tip requirement beforehand.

"It's not a black-and-white issue," Cleveland said. "It will be very interesting to see where it goes in court."

I believe the charges were later dropped.

[bort]

It is NY, NY.

Actually Lake George is pretty far upstate (and I'll never forget getting stuck in the middle of a 50,000 motorcyclist convention there on the way to Montreal).

Anyway, guess the guy's just lucky it wasn't Tony Soprano.

[Mitch]

I've been in the position of server, and provided excellent service, which I measure by a WEEKLY tip AVERAGE of 30%. My customers rarely had to ask me for anything other than their initial order, and regular customers rarely had to ask me for that.
But there were ALWAYS jerks who had no concept of tipping. And restaurants SHOULD have mandatory tip amounts for large parties, because of those jerks. I think it's easier to skunk out in a group than if it's 2, 3 or 4. There were a couple times I absolutely KILLED myself to provide the same quality of service to parties of ten, even 20, only to be tipped so pathetically. When a server is handling a large group, if they're sensible, they're not taking any other tables. In other words, when they get a bad tip, they've spent all that time on one group, have only them as a source of income for that hour, hour and a half, and if they get stiffed, it's like the whole shift is lost. I've had members of parties sneak back to me and give me more money because they were embarassed by the jackass who paid and left a lousy tip.
I'm the first person to shrink the tip if the service stinks, but I'll also communicate my dissatisfaction BEFORE the meal is over, to offer the opportunity to rectify the situation. I'll speak to the manager before I leave if the service remained poor.
But...some people are just dumb. One of the only times I got stiffed on a tip, a patron had ordered something that had "barbeque chicken" in the title, printed on the menu, and she ordered it BY NAME. I delivered her food, checked back soon thereafter, and she said everything was fine. But she continued to just pick at it, scraping things off, etc. I checked back again, asking if everything was alright. She said, "I don't like it; it's not right." I asked if she felt it wasn't cooked enough, or did it need more of something...? (Remember the title, the "barbeque chicken" part...) She said, "No, I just don't like it. It's, like, all barbecue sauce and chicken." While I refrained from saying, "Are you f'ing kidding me?!?! It said BARBECUE CHICKEN on the menu, and you ordered it, saying, 'Let me have that barbecue chicken thing'!!!!," I politely said, "I'm terribly sorry. May I get you something else in its place?" But she just continued to bitch and moan, and left me nothing for a tip. Like her raving stupidity was my fault. And it wasn't like she ate the whole thing, then complained (which happens every day in restaurants across the country by cheap people trying to get away with paying nothing for a meal, and facilitated by spineless managers [not much lower on the food chain than chain-smokin' lifer restaurant managers]), she hardly ate a thing, seemingly completely unable to make the connection between the title of the entree and the components in the entree.
The biggest argument for servers receiving tips is that they have to put up with some of the highest degree of rudeness, incivility, and downright stupidity sometimes, and still do it with a smile.

[ThomasDodd]

Not enough info to decide who was at fault.

A prime example of why a per-person surcharge would be better.
Calling it a tip, or gratuity and basing it on the order total leave this question.
If it was a per-person, fixed surcharge there'd be no question of legality.

The amount would be set by the location, and easily posted. This would also stop large parties with small orders getting of cheap. Imagine 10 people getting drinks and appetizers, then sitting there for 2-3 hours chatting and enjoying free refills. Even 20% isn't going to cover the extra service.

As to the guy not noticing it on the menu. Ignorance is no excuse. If he didn't see the no-smoking sign on the door, would that allow him to smoke there? How could anyone over 25 not expect a automantic gratuity for large parties? I've seldom seen a menu without that notice.

[funkcicle]

(sorry for the double-post!)

Lake George is like upstate NY's min Las Vegas.. absolutely disgusting town/capitalism lived out to it's full potential

LOVED it when i was 10 years old though!

[TubaRay]

Does it have any titty bars? Topless womn are always a positive thing.

Doc

Well, at least to most guys and some women.

[funkcicle]

Does it have any titty bars? Topless womn are always a positive thing.

Doc

Upstairs from every gift store and temporary-tattoo shop!

[NeilMacQuarrie]

.

[JB]

Probably most of us have noticed that the service in a given city's finest restaurant is better than in the neighborhood greasy spoon....[T]here are very few reasons which can excuse lack lustre service...

Hey Neil:

Bet ya never had "lack lustre" food at the Chickenburger -- wasn't that one of the finest restaurants out your way (at least it was one of mine), and the service was probably pretty good too

Hope all is well.

Cheers
JB (If you want to reply, PM me please.)

[TubaRay]

tipping will also keep ur drinks flowing fast and the correct drink is always eaiser to remember when tipped.. That may seem like a pretty anti customer service thing to say and if i let that known at my work place i would be fired on the spot.. but money does make the world go round .

Tipping well may improve the service in a place where one is a regular, but it will do no good whatsoever where one is an unknown. After all, tipping is generally done AFTER the service is performed. I know, I know. There are some exceptions to this, but restaurants are not one of them.

Under the "this really gets my goat" mantle is where I use a check card at a counter where I had to place an order and I am asked to fill in a tip amount. I have received zero service when I fill this in, so I am sure to ALWAYS fill this in with "0.00" I am not going to give a tip for service before said service has been performed. This is particularly true in regards to tipping someone whose job it is to deliver my food and fill my tea glass once. Ugh!

Lest everyone think I am a stingy guy(which, of course I am), I readily tip for good service.

[ThomasDodd]

You CAN decline the server's..uh, services. Stay at home and cook it yourself. Being served is part and parcel to going out to eat - you effecitvely ask for service when you walk in the door and don't get to "opt out" to save a buck. If you aren't willing to ante up, don't go out.

I tend to eat at home far more often too. As to wanting to save a buck but opting out. That not it at all. Some dishes are difficult to prepare for one. Or aquiring the ingreedients or equipment is difficult or not cost effective. So while the food may cost $10, for me to do it would require much higher expenses. I'm willing to pay more to get thoses items at a more reasonable rate. Try getting a decent lobster down here. I can spend large sums to have one overnighted to me, or got to a place that has a hundred trucked in regulary. They cost, per item is lower.

But paying based on the price of the meal? Even a percentage seams wrong. How is the waitress working any different bringing 3 filets, at $25 each, to my table or 3 ribeyes, at $15 each? at 20% one get a $15 tip, and the other only $9. The work done is the same though.

In many cases it even worse. Pay $1.50 for a drink, and get 3 refills, or $5 for a glass of wine. Wouldn't the 3 refils be more work, and thus deserving of more pay? Yet the "cultural norm" uses a percentage of the bill. this seams wrong to me.

I suggest the staff get payed a reasonable wage for their job. Any gratuity would be for service above what is expected. A 5-star resturant would pay better, but the expected level of service would be higher.

Lastly, I tend to prefer the greasy spoon to the fancy 5-star places. Better food, and usually better service. Like a waitress that notuices a low level in you glass before asking if you want more ( sometime bringing another glass without needing to be asked) instead of coming by every 5 - 10 minutes asking "is everything OK" or "can I get you anything"

I think I'll eat out tonight.

[tubatooter1940]

Nobody mentioned the lowly saloon musician pounding it out for four to five hours with a tip jar and C.D's for sale.
People who walk by and holler,"Play some Buffet" and keep walking do not get the consideration folks do who drop cash in the tip jar and ask if a request is possible.